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Boys being boys or need major help
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amother
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Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 11:37 pm
My daughter was running around with 2 boys outside shul and I saw them go into a empty apartment and lock the door. My daughter is 3 ,the boys are 4+7) . I told them to open it but they were ignoring me so I went to get their mother who has the key.
It took about 5 minutes for us to break in and these 2 boys had my daughter undress and were touching her bottom, etc..

I am not sure how to react.

Obviously the boys mother needs to address with them and make sure never happens again.
I have spoken to my daughter about never running into empty room to play without an adult and we never lock doors . and that if someone says take off your underwear you scream.
But what else can I do ? To make sure she won't be traumatized?
Is the best thing to keep her away from these boys in the immediate future?
What would you do?


Last edited by amother on Sun, Sep 10 2017, 7:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother
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Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 11:41 pm
Keep her far away.

And this is not boys being boys. My 4 year old and 7 year old boys would never even dream of something like this.
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amother
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Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 11:46 pm
No, this is definitely NOT boys being boys. This is a serious issue, and I really wonder where these boys got these ideas from. This is terrible!
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Blessing1




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 11:49 pm
I'm sorry it happened to your daughter. It makes bo sense for normal 4-7 year olds to even think about doing this. Wonder where they got this idea from...
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amother
Tan


 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 12:35 am
Something similar recently happened to my 5 year old daughter where a boy the same age as her took her into his basement and asked her to take off her underwear. I posted on here for advice and posters seemed to be saying it was within the range of normal exploratory play for that age, though not to be encouraged of course. I spoke to the mom who claims she spoke to the kid. I told my daughter never to go into a basement without asking me first, and if someone asks her to take of her clothes to scream no and come right to me.
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gittelchana




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 2:13 am
This is definitely a good case of boys being boys.

It's wrong and bad and the boys need to be disciplined by their mother, but that doesn't make it unnatural. It's very natural for boys to try to get into girls pants. At this young age, it's natural for them to explore a girls body. You're horrified because of the lack of consent, but a little boy might not know about that.

It isn't your boy, so there isn't much you can do anyway beyond speaking to the mother.
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 2:23 am
Honestly, more than the touching bothers me, its the locked door that bothers me.

Sometimes boys will peek at each other, but to lock a door is a learned behavior. A "normal" little boy would never think about the need to stop others from walking in. Only if they deeply know that it is wrong, or have had a door locked on them would they know to do this.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 2:31 am
All the kids involved need some talking to.

If everyone involved agreed to participate, then they all need to be taught that private parts are just that: private. I assume they knew this if they had the door locked...

You should mention the incient to the other mother.

And if she did not agree to this, then the event was definitelydisturbing, and you definitely need to have a talk with the boys' mother. Bring your husband if you think it will have more impact. No need to be hysterical, but you should firmly let it be known that you don't expect that anything like thus will even happen again with your daughter. Tell them that as a result of this incident you had a serious talk w/your daughter about inappropriate touching, and you have instructed her to tell you immediately if anything like this ever happens again.


Last edited by DrMom on Sun, Sep 10 2017, 2:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother
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Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 2:32 am
amother wrote:
Honestly, more than the touching bothers me, its the locked door that bothers me.

Sometimes boys will peek at each other, but to lock a door is a learned behavior. A "normal" little boy would never think about the need to stop others from walking in. Only if they deeply know that it is wrong, or have had a door locked on them would they know to do this.


At 7 playing keep-away from parents is normal - it's a game in itself, not because of nessarily hiding something.

A seven year old has a concept of locked doors because he sees his parents lock the front door of their home.
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groovy1224




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 3:02 am
gittelchana wrote:
This is definitely a good case of boys being boys.

It's wrong and bad and the boys need to be disciplined by their mother, but that doesn't make it unnatural. It's very natural for boys to try to get into girls pants. At this young age, it's natural for them to explore a girls body. You're horrified because of the lack of consent, but a little boy might not know about that.

It isn't your boy, so there isn't much you can do anyway beyond speaking to the mother.


Your 4 and 7 year olds routinely try to get into girls' pants?
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amother
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Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 7:07 am
The mother knows and was horrified. We live nearby and these kids play with my daughter regularly which was part of the shock. Keeping them away will be difficult in a small community but if that what I need to do I would.
Do I need to b getting professional help for my daughter? She did go in the apartment willing but she did not want to take off her clothes (which they forced her to do) so I don't think she is in anyway to blame. They r bigger than her and weren't giving a choice.
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petiteruchy




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 7:54 am
What does your gut tell you regarding these children, especially the older one?

Same age children doing some mutual exploration of each other's bodies through games like doctor is normal. A little curiosity to see a same age friend's private parts is also normal. The fact that the oldest was seven is worrisome. This whole incident with just the 3 and 4 year old would not raise flags at all, but the fact that the seven year old was involved and so insistent even with your intervention should concern everyone.

I definitely don't think your daughter should be playing with the older child any more. You know now that you can't trust him not to manipulate or coerce your child when he's around her. There's not necessarily any need to keep the younger one away from your child as the power difference is not so great.

Anyway, for your daughter you need to remind her she did nothing wrong, especially if you were visibly upset during the incident. You can focus on the basics... Not safe to lock doors, older children don't have the right to make her do something she doesn't want to, getting undressed is private, etc.

For the mother, you have to relay your safety concerns. If that were my seven year old, I'd be at least aware of the fact that this behavior raises red flags for exposure to s-xually inappropriate behavior if not abuse. I'd also be aware that children who start trying to manipulate or force younger children into certain behaviors or situations often escalate. That child would definitely be tomato staked until I was confident there was nothing going on. You can't control what she does, of course, but if you see she's not taking it seriously, you can decide from there how to proceed.
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amother
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Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 8:05 am
My gut tells me the 7 year old is a little socially off (the typical seven year old would not enjoy playing with an almost four year old). But they play together every week and this is first. I am torn between avoiding for a while I.e. not going to shul, the nearby park; vs just supervising them really well unless there is a repeat incident.

Last edited by amother on Sun, Sep 10 2017, 8:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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myself




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 8:12 am
notshanarishona wrote:
My gut tells me the 7 year old is a little socially off (the typical seven year old would not enjoy playing with an almost four year old). But they play together every week and this is first. I am torn between avoiding for a while I.e. not going to shul, the nearby park; vs just supervising them really well unless there is a repeat incident.


Is the boys' mother doing anything about it? Can she be relied upon to provide adequate supervision at all times?
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thunderstorm




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 8:13 am
I've had a girl age 6 lock my 3 yr old in his room to "play doctor". She would strip my son including is underwear. It happened more than once . Mom of girl thought it's normal and funny. I did not. I then had to be super careful when that individual played at our home. I layed down rules, no playing doctor, no undressing games and no locking doors. I always checked up on them every 10 minutes or so. It was super stressful for me when she came to play. These boys need to be punished but also questioned as to where they ever saw someone do that before.
It's very concerning
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 8:36 am
This isn't normal. Don't allow your daughter anywhere near the two of them. If the 7 year old is related to the 4 year old then even the younger one is suspect because he has been subjected to being a victim by the older one.

Hurt people hurt people. Stay away.

Teach your daughter how what they did was very wrong. Teach her about privacy under the area that is covered by a bathing suit. Speak to your pediatrician about more tips on how to teach your daughter body safety and how to protect herself. One time talking to her is not enough. It needs to be an ongoing dialogue with her throughout her childhood.
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amother
Silver


 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 8:54 am
I still think that this is not normal behavior. I don't think that anyone here needs professional help, and besides, you can't send someone else's kid to therapy.

But my gut feeling tells me that these kids might have been exposed to stuff... as I'm typing this I'm thinking maybe this appropriate for today's kids, they are exposed to so much....
We live in a very sad world.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 9:01 am
Hugs.
What most of the posters said: it's not going to be easy but you have to keep on eye on who your daughter plays with. Age appropriate, if older there should be a mix of girls, etc.
The parents must know!!!!! Something might be going on with their own boys to lead them to such activity. Regardless, there is no way I'd let my daughter be near those boys again.
Hatzlacha!
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amother
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Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 9:21 am
Thanks all..
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amother
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Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 9:45 am
amother wrote:
This isn't normal. Don't allow your daughter anywhere near the two of them. If the 7 year old is related to the 4 year old then even the younger one is suspect because he has been subjected to being a victim by the older one.

Hurt people hurt people. Stay away.

Teach your daughter how what they did was very wrong. Teach her about privacy under the area that is covered by a bathing suit. Speak to your pediatrician about more tips on how to teach your daughter body safety and how to protect herself. One time talking to her is not enough. It needs to be an ongoing dialogue with her throughout her childhood.


I would not speak to the pediatrician. Some are nuts are run to report you to CPS (even though you are not abusing your kids, you stopped it as soon as you realized, took measures to make sure it never happens again, and seeking help for your child) for "neglect." Crazy world we live in. Anyone who does not believe me has no experience with CPS. Anyone who has innocent relatives have their worlds completely upended by CPS (such as the imamother Imasinger is raising money for) will know exactly what I am talking about.

As to what to do otherwise, sounds like you spoke correctly to her and watch her like a hawk when around those 2.
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