Are you happy wearing a sheitel?

amother

Olive

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 2:26 pm

amother wrote:

Vermillion you're totally correct
That's why many women today are choosing to wear a tichel- it's why so many Gedolim endorsed tichels as being the ideal way to cover and screamed about Many wigs being pritzus. The original sheitels that were allowed were nothing like today's wigs. They were very wiggy and looked like a head covering- that's why they were allowed. With all the new technology wigs look just like ones own hair or much nicer most of the time. And it's exactly the same as wearing clothes that look like the body parts underneath it. It will attract provocative male attention
covering our hair has everything to do with modesty- it's why we cover our hair!
This can be twisted in every way possible- the truth is obvious to those who are open to it. I understand it- I used to wear long gorgeous wigs outside and boy did I feel great about myself! And boy did I get attention and smiles from men. It was exhilarating and totally wrong. When I started wearing tichels there was an instant barrier between me and other men- they are very respectful and almost talk to me like I'm a Rebbetzin. But I like that- I have no inner guilt and I feel like it's what Hashem wants. My focus is much more external and I'm not looking to impress other anymore or fit in to secular expectations of women looking externally beautiful. I look and feel like a married religious Jewish woman who is covering her hair in an obvious manner. My davening changed and my relationship with Hashem feels different.
As we all know- kavod takes us out of this world. There's so much focus today on external superficial beauty- which is the opposite of Torah values. The sheitel has become another vehicle for this

It seems to me that in most of the accounts I read from people who stopped wearing sheitels the person was originally wearing gorgeous wigs and felt like she upgraded her tznius by getting rid of them. My wig (I only have one) is not gorgeous. It is simple and functional and makes me look basically put together, but certainly not anything even approaching glamorous. I don't feel "great about myself" when I wear my wig. I'd rather just be comfortable. I don't get smiles and stares from men. The men I interact with treat me respectfully and like a rebbetzin. There are options other than a tichel or a long glamorous sheitel.

Maybe I am coming from a different place because to me getting dressed up or being even minimally fashionable (as in wearing styles from 2 years ago instead of 10 years ago) is a chore and not something I enjoy at all. I care much more about my own comfort than about how good I look. But I do feel it is important to at least minimally fit in with the social norm in my community as long as it is not contrary to halacha or to my hashkafic sensibilities.

So yes there is something to the idea of giving up a long glamorous sheitel in favor of a tichel, but it is also true that a woman who is focused on glamour can easily be more provocative in a tichel than a woman who couldn't care less about glamour will be in a sheitel.

amother

Olive

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 2:37 pm

amother wrote:

Your response is exactly why the concept of sheitels are do confusing. Of course you love your sheitals. I love mine as well. They are stunning. People frequently comment on how beautiful they are. I love the attention. Isn't this all opposite of why we cover our hair? The whole idea is so backwards to me. Imagine if we covered our bodies (in the name of tznius) with provokotive clothing. Men would gawk and stare. Everyone would say that is not the proper way to cover up. Yet that seems to be exactly what we do with wigs. We cover up in a way that grabs even more attention.

Ummmm....not everyone does that with wigs. Plenty of people wear short, simple, unprovocative wigs that do not grab attention. I don't love my sheitel (don't hate it either....just neutral). It is not stunning. People don't tell me how beautiful it is, which is fine because I am not looking for attention. I am just looking to cover my hair in a way that is halachic and presentable. To me, my wig is an article of clothing, and like all my articles of clothing, I choose ones that are tzanua, and would be mortified if they were causing men to gawk at me.

Chayalle

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 2:51 pm

amother wrote:

I love my sheitel, too. It's not stunning. It's very nice and tasteful, and at the present time, it's my most expensive article of clothing, so I take good care of it. I get comments from people about how beautiful I look, because people are sweet and try to compliment other people (I do it too....to make my family and friends feel good, and because I truly do feel they look beautiful. There's a famous story about a Gadol who made a little girl feel good by telling her her dress is pretty.) It has nothing to do with loving attention and is, IMVHO, not at all opposed to tznius. Nothing backwards about it, and B"H I've never noticed any men gawking or staring at me.

In short, I don't think a comment by a poster about loving her sheitel and planning to buy another, leads to any logical conclusion that the poster is wearing a sheitel that is not tznius, is attention grabbing, and is provoking to men. Even if she feels beautiful in it.

ETA: just saw olive amother's posts. You said it better than I did!

amother

Vermilion

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 3:12 pm

amother wrote:

I agree with you, plenty of woman wear simple wigs. The reason I say it's backwards is because there are many thousands of woman who wear shaitels, that do not conform with modesty. I didn't mean to imply that every single woman wears an immodest shaitel. (Only 90% of woman under age 35)

amother

Sienna

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 5:24 pm

There are some wigs that are modest but more are not.
No matter how modest a sheitel is a tichel is halachically and hashkafically the ideal way to cover the hair. Rav Elyashiv said this as did most great Poskim (many of their wives only wore tichels)
And if one understands why married Jewish women cover their hair it's very logical too. A sheitel while allowed today was a dispute among poskim with many assuring them. And the ones that allowed them only allowed very wiggy unnatural ones. Even many current day Gedolim only allowed wiggy wigs such as Rav Elyashiv, Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, Rav Chaim Kanievsky etc...
A tichel was never a halachic dispute. It was always the accepted and preferred way to cover the hair. From a tznius angle it's also ideal. It looks the most like a head covering and because hair is so attracting to men (which is why we cover it after marriage) the less like hair your head covering is the more tznius it is with a cloth head covering being the ideal- it looks the least like hair and is therefore the least attractive to men. Are there women who look glamorous in tichels - - of course, but it's not the tichel itself that's doing that, it's because the woman is being immodest on other areas of dress while wearing a tichel (tight clothes, lots of makeup, too big jewelry etc...) or she's showing hair which is a problem too. But the tichel itself is the most mehudar head covering.

What confuses women is that they think wearing a tichel makes them stand out therefore it's less modest- that's a twisting of the truth unfortunately. We are supposed to look like we are covering our hair! The more obvious the head covering the better. We're supposed to look married to men and less attractive than with our own hair (not more!) The problem is provocative attention- not having a noticeable head covering. A tichel is not attractive to a man in any provocative way- hair is. We're not supposed to blend in with non jews- we are supposed to look religious. We left mitzraim because we didn't adapt to the culture there and change our dress. Many of the sheitels today are a deception.
I love how Rebbetzin Heller put it in the book about Rebbetzin Henny Machlis- she said that sheitels can be worn but they are number two, tichels are number one- but we shouldn't make number two in to number one

classycat

Sun, Jun 17 2018, 6:55 pm

There's this little sefer which is just too modest... Raiment of Gold. Doesn't look like anything interesting or flashy but it's a concise little sefer on the basics of modesty with haskomos up to the wazoo: Rav Shternbuch, Rav Ch Kanievsky, Rav N Karelitz, Rav Auerbach, Rav Elyashiv, Rabbi Dunner, and more... reads like a who was who of gedolim and top rabbonim from 20 years ago when it was first published... When I looked up wigs in this sefer it was clear that al pi halacha, a cloth covering is preferable, and where wigs are permitted they have to be pretty simple and obvious. Many people don't think like that nowadays, but apparently most men agree that even the really stunning elaborate tichels don't have the same yetzer hara as even simple wigs.

amother

Sienna

Sun, Jun 17 2018, 9:49 pm

As a Chashuv Rebbetzin told me- a tichel is like any other article of clothing so the same way a skirt or shirt should be refined and not outlandish, a tichel should be too.

That being said- a tichel is of course more modest than a wig which looks like hair (it is hair!) and is definitely more attractive to men than a cloth covering. In every study done on men to find what are the most attractive parts of a women to a man- hair was way up there as being super attracting (these were not Jewish studies). Thats why the hair of a married woman needs to be covered after marriage- to save her main beauty for her husband only and to lessen her attraction to other men. By covering her hair she is making sure that she does not attract the provocative attention of men other than her husband.

So of course a tichel/hat is the most modest and ideal option (as many Gedolim stated in the past and present)- it doesnt look like the body part its meant to conceal! A cloth covering looks nothing like hair so its not attracting to men- the woman wearing it looks very married and doesnt look sensual at all. Even the most outlandish tichel- it might not be refined or low key- but it will never attract a man the same way hair will. There are of course some short modest more wiggy wigs worn by women (and it is indeed hard to wear these wigs) but even with that - many Gedolim stated that halachically a cloth covering is the most ideal (a tichel was never a dispute among Poskim, wigs were a halachic debate with many Gedolim assuring them and those that allowed wigs only gave a heter to ones that were wiggy and an obvious looking head covering)

tryinghard

Sun, Jun 17 2018, 10:26 pm

amother wrote:

It doesn't matter if she knows if she's unavailable to other men, other men have to know that she's married and covering her hair. She can't be a stumbling block to men and attract their attention- hair is a major source of attraction for a woman. Married woman are supposed to be beautiful at home for their husbands only. I never said women should look ugly outside, but they are supposed to downplay their beauty outside where other men see them. Beautiful wigs do the opposite. Tznius is all about covering oneself in a way that does not provoke men. The Torah states in many places how attractive hair is. Kisui rosh is not a chok. It states clearly in many places why we have to cover our hair.

The reason that the Torah prohibits a married woman to reveal her hair is the following:
אסור גלוי הראש אינו אלא משום פריצות דגברי (תרומת הדשן)
The prohibition of revealing one’s hair is because hair is Pritzus. Since the hair of a married woman is attractive to another man and can cause him to sin, it must be covered.

Please, if you are going to quote sefarim, be accurate. With regard to the bolded - you jump from the translation to an inaccurate assumption - it never says that "Since the hair of a married woman is attractive to another man and can cause him to sin, it must be covered" - it say that the act of revealing one's hair is assur because of pritzus - so you are confusing an act with an object (or a body part). The issue is not the hair itself, but the act of revealing it. And while you don't agree with this approach, there are MANY Rabbanim who hold that this is because the covering is a reminder to the woman herself. So therefore, the revealing would necessarily be a lowering of gedarim, because she removes her tangible reminder of "I am not available".

amother wrote:

The gemara says that hair is erotik and sensual thus prohibiting men from davening when it's in plain site. Another mishnah says various reasons that are grounds for divorce such as not covering hair in public, and talking to a man. The basic understanding is that it is a modesty issue. Of course these days woman talk to men all the time, but it seems the hair covering has stuck. I'm surprised you think that hair covering is a chok the way para aduma is. Any rabbi, whether to the left or right will acknowledge that it is connected to modesty.

"The basic understanding" is one approach, but there is a major split even very early on (Rishonim) as to what this issue is. And again. It's the specific act of uncovering her hair. Because it's specific to marriage, and HER awareness. By the way, the mishna doesn't say it's grounds for divorce - it says "grounds for divorcing without granting her kesuba rights". Interestingly, a woman who walks around topless doesn't forfeit her kesuba - and yet I think we would all agree that that is far more immodest. But the reality is that one is specific to the woman's mindset and awareness of her status as a married woman, and the other is simply that all around she is a prutza.

amother

Ecru

Sun, Jun 17 2018, 11:50 pm

amother wrote:

I CONSTANTLY see very attractive, women with Make-up like a model, eyebrows perfectly shaped and colored, very attractive earrings...with very expensive tichels and head coverings. They absolutely DO NOT LOOK MODEST AT ALL. Different yes!! Unattractive to men or women, NO NO NO

Mommyg8

Mon, Jun 18 2018, 12:00 am

amother wrote:

So, I think it's time for some clarity - is it assur to wear make-up? Is it assur to shape your eyebrows? Is it assur to wear very attractive earrings? Assur to wear expensive tichels?

I'm posting this because I genuinely don't know the answer. I used to think I knew what tznius is, but imamother has really gotten me confused What

naturalmom5

Mon, Jun 18 2018, 12:27 am

amother wrote:

The Lubavitcher Rebbe was very very very against tichels in the street..

A Jewish woman SHOULD NEVER look slumpy and dowdy because it makes Yiddishkeit look repulsive..

amother

Coral

Mon, Jun 18 2018, 3:36 am

If you're going to bring the Rebbe into it, you might want to check your facts first.

- The Rebbetzin most certainly did wear a shaitel.
- The Rebbe did not become Rebbe in the early 1900s, the Rebbe's leadership began in 1940.
- The Rebbe wanted young married women to wear wigs; in fact it was often a condition of him officiating at the wedding.
- The Rebbe encouraged the manufacturer Freeda (very natural looking wigs) in her business, assuring her that women would buy shaitels for weekdays and Shabbos.
- The Rebbe stated that an ADVANTAGE of shaitels is that they are more beautiful than your own hair.
- The Rebbe spoke about a spiritual advantage in shaitels which does not exist with other forms of hair coverings.

Perhaps take a few minutes to read more about the Rebbe's opinion, in these two books (available online and free):
- http://www.sie.org/templates/s.....h.htm
- http://www.sie.org/templates/s.....n.htm
Or a shorter article:
https://www.chabad.org/theJewi.....g.htm

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Jun 18 2018, 4:00 am

amother wrote:

Some of the people who have given up sheitels, have switched to very elaborate tichel styles. Coming from a Bais Yakov background, I find that very untzniyus. Now I won’t determine which is more / less tzniyus, but something strikes me the wrong way about the whole thing. Those that switch to a super simple, muted colored head covering, I get it. Those that are wearing exotic looking flamboyant headpieces - you lost me there. (My old high school principal traded her sheitel for simple black/ navy hats. I get the modesty in that)

Can you please explain why you feel that very nice mitpachot are not tzanua? How is that wrong?
(its interesting because I feel similarly about wigs, so...)