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Forum -> Fashion and Beauty
Are you happy wearing a sheitel?
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Do you want to stop wearing a sheitel?
I'd love to stop because of comfort.  
 13%  [ 41 ]
I'd love to stop because of cost.  
 1%  [ 4 ]
I'd love to stop for convenience (time to get sheitel done).  
 0%  [ 2 ]
I think it's strange to cover your hair with hair.  
 3%  [ 12 ]
I think other methods are more tzanua.  
 1%  [ 5 ]
All or several of the above  
 15%  [ 48 ]
I have never worn a sheitel.  
 10%  [ 31 ]
I have stopped wearing a sheitel  
 3%  [ 12 ]
I like wearing a sheitel.  
 49%  [ 151 ]
Total Votes : 306



amother
Hotpink


 

Post Mon, Jun 18 2018, 7:18 pm
amother wrote:
Sorry but many many hold by wearinf a scarf as a more Tsanua way of covering...with a sheital being "less" chumradik


Wrong, rabbonim have said the only way to ensure all the hair is covered is with a wig as tichels and snoods show a lot of hair sometimes, and there are some women who wear their snood so far back on their head with so much hair showing that I wonder why they bother at all. Rabbi Tauber said if more than a tefach of hair shows, you might as well take off your wig and go out with head uncovered, it’s the same.
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Woman of Valor




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 18 2018, 7:20 pm
shiaeisen wrote:
So no halachic considerations go into it? Just looks?


Are you trying to say wigs are not allowed or not as good? Many prominent rabbanim actually say the opposite. Obviously this poster is operating under a different assumption than you. I heard that even a woman's own hair can be used to make her a wig. In other words she can use her own hair as a covering, provided that it is not attached to her head anymore.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 18 2018, 8:21 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
In my MO/DL world women wear mitpachot 9% of the time. You rarely see any wigs. And let me tell you that there are some women out there that look the exact opposite of dowdy. They look positively regal and extremely put together.

How do any of the women on this website look anything but amazing (and definitely not dowdy)?
https://www.wrapunzel.com/prod.....hels/

Thanks. This is the type of tichel that I generally wear. In fact, I was at a school event tonight for one of my kids - a dressed up event. Most of the women were in sheitels and the few of us who wore tichels looked positively regal. And personally, knowing that I am not compromising my personal belief makes me feel even better about the mitzvah. Note - I never say that tichels are the preferred way to cover. I say they are the preferred way to cover for ME and MY derech. You pick yours and wear it with pride. But please dont knock mine. I am also a Bas Melech and I wear my chosen crown just as beautifully as you wear yours.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 18 2018, 8:23 pm
SuperWify wrote:
They look nice but IMHO a wig is still a lot classier.

Please see my post above. No reason to knock others as less “classy” (ugh I HATE that term).
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amother
Copper


 

Post Mon, Jun 18 2018, 11:56 pm
amother wrote:
Their sole purpose for buying the wig is to beautify themselves to attract the opposite gender- they would never put on a tichel for that.
\

Actually Sienna, you're wrong on that. African tribal women often wear scarves to cover their hair, partially for the purpose of beauty. Many current African and African Americans consider it a fashionable accessory.

Just saying.
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amother
Copper


 

Post Tue, Jun 19 2018, 12:03 am
This whole movement of women taking off their sheitilach has some positives and some negatives. While the general idea is praiseworthy, I find that there an extreme elitist attitude that many switchers have. I also have seen the following two things that I think odd:

1. Some women who switched look positively ridiculous in a tichel, and therefore, compensate with huge jewelry and bright colors. I know of a switcher who looks totally like a clown. Bright red lipstick and all. Somehow, the whole concept of tznuis got lost in the switch...

2. Information that is not 100% correct is being shared with the community. It really irked me to see printed a quote, supposedly from the Skulener Rebbe, about the importance of never wearing a sheitel. I clearly believe that statement was doctored to leave out info --perhaps about human hair shietelach or very long ones -- because guess what his own daughters wear? Sheitelach! The front of a synthetic sheitel, topped with a tichel.
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amother
Coral


 

Post Tue, Jun 19 2018, 12:59 am
It seems prudent to point out here that the concept of tznius is even when a person is on his or her own. The posuk says, "Hatzneia Leches Im Hashem Elokecha" — walk modestly with Hashem.

Shulchan Aruch elaborates that even when someone is completely on his own, with nobody of either gender around, the rules of tznius apply.

Much of this discussion seems to be predicated on a theory that women cover their hair only because of men.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 19 2018, 1:13 am
amother wrote:
It seems prudent to point out here that the concept of tznius is even when a person is on his or her own. The posuk says, "Hatzneia Leches Im Hashem Elokecha" — walk modestly with Hashem.

Shulchan Aruch elaborates that even when someone is completely on his own, with nobody of either gender around, the rules of tznius apply.

Much of this discussion seems to be predicated on a theory that women cover their hair only because of men.
Maybe not because of men, but many women only cover to leave their homes.
And most definitely not everyone dresses the same way they do in their homes than they do when they go out.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Tue, Jun 19 2018, 1:13 am
amother wrote:
This whole movement of women taking off their sheitilach has some positives and some negatives. While the general idea is praiseworthy, I find that there an extreme elitist attitude that many switchers have. I also have seen the following two things that I think odd:

1. Some women who switched look positively ridiculous in a tichel, and therefore, compensate with huge jewelry and bright colors. I know of a switcher who looks totally like a clown. Bright red lipstick and all. Somehow, the whole concept of tznuis got lost in the switch...

2. Information that is not 100% correct is being shared with the community. It really irked me to see printed a quote, supposedly from the Skulener Rebbe, about the importance of never wearing a sheitel. I clearly believe that statement was doctored to leave out info --perhaps about human hair shietelach or very long ones -- because guess what his own daughters wear? Sheitelach! The front of a synthetic sheitel, topped with a tichel.


Uh, I have no idea what the Skulener Rebbe did or didn't say, but the fact that his daughters where a tichel with a few synthetic hairs coming out at the front, does not in any way endorse wearing sheitels.

(I do wear sheitels. Just pointing out that that isn't called wearing a sheitel.)
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amother
Cerulean


 

Post Tue, Jun 19 2018, 3:28 am
I wear a shoulder length wig to work. I want to blend in on the #4 train and feel a wrap or teichel would stand out too much.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 19 2018, 3:56 am
SuperWify wrote:
They look nice but IMHO a wig is still a lot classier.
This is one of those things that each woman will have her own opinion. I dont cover my hair the way the website was showing either. But I still think these women look regal and extremely classy. I dont see how a wig can make someone look classy, its just hair.
But we will have to agree to disagree.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 19 2018, 4:00 am
amother wrote:
Wrong, rabbonim have said the only way to ensure all the hair is covered is with a wig as tichels and snoods show a lot of hair sometimes, and there are some women who wear their snood so far back on their head with so much hair showing that I wonder why they bother at all. Rabbi Tauber said if more than a tefach of hair shows, you might as well take off your wig and go out with head uncovered, it’s the same.
HOw can you outright say this is wrong? Different drachim in judaism say different things about every single mitzvah out there, no?
I know rabbanim, and not just sfardi ones, that say wigs are completely assur, so what then?
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amother
Copper


 

Post Tue, Jun 19 2018, 7:50 am
amother wrote:
Uh, I have no idea what the Skulener Rebbe did or didn't say, but the fact that his daughters where a tichel with a few synthetic hairs coming out at the front, does not in any way endorse wearing sheitels.

(I do wear sheitels. Just pointing out that that isn't called wearing a sheitel.)


How can you call it not wearing a sheitel? It looks like a sheitel, costs like a sheitel, probably smells and tastes like one too, not that I'm advocating eating your sheitel... Wink

Just because it is refined and tznuisdig doesn't mean you cannot call it a sheitel.

And btw, they wear a full bang, not just a few hairs.
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 19 2018, 7:54 am
amother wrote:
It seems prudent to point out here that the concept of tznius is even when a person is on his or her own. The posuk says, "Hatzneia Leches Im Hashem Elokecha" — walk modestly with Hashem.

Shulchan Aruch elaborates that even when someone is completely on his own, with nobody of either gender around, the rules of tznius apply.

Much of this discussion seems to be predicated on a theory that women cover their hair only because of men.


This, exactly! Men also have a concept of tznius. And even when no-one is around at all. Nothing to do with the opposite gender. Which is why I don't get why it's a problem for women to be attractive (as long as they are not provocative), it's really about covering up and being tznius before Hashem.
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Tue, Jun 19 2018, 9:40 am
There were and are many Gedolim that say that a sheitel is asur because its like all the hair is showing- that's what it looks like- it looks like the woman has hair on her head and a married woman's hair is meant to look obviously covered. Rav Elyashiv said that anyone who says a sheitel is better than a tichel because of the few hairs that stick out is speaking foolish words- a tichel is "Glatt" it was never a machlokas in halacha like wigs were (many Gedolim and poskim forbade wigs halachically! how could that be a better covering than a tichel which was always good halachically as a head covering and was worn for centuries by Jewish women. The wig is a relatively new head covering for Jewish women)

And many Gedolim have stated that the wigs have the same attraction as ones own hair (usually nicer than ones own hair) so they are not allowed. This is definitely the case with most of todays wigs- which are worn by many non Jewish women to look gorgeous (they are definitely not wearing wigs to look modest)

Lets be totally honest here- most women are not wearing tichels and scarves to look gorgeous. They might look classy and elegant in them but cloth coverings do not have the same attraction to men as hair does. And please dont fool yourself otherwise. The Torah understands the attraction of hair to men- its a major source of attraction - thats why a married woman is supposed to cover her hair! Thats why hair is called erva. In the peninim book endorsed by Rav Forcheimer in lkw it says that erva means something that has the potential to cause attraction from men. Married women are forbidden to cause men to look at them in a provocative way- hair is alluring! Thats why Gedolim only allowed shorter, stiffer wiggier wigs which dont look like shiny nice natural hair and are not attracting to men

There are many women that wouldnt dream about leaving their house without their wig- why? Because the wig transforms their looks and makes them look so much more attractive than how they look in their scarf, snood hat etc..
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Tue, Jun 19 2018, 10:01 am
No one is going to like this post but its the pure emes!

Tznius is ALL about the men. Women do not have to halachically cover their body or their hair in front of other women. As a matter of fact until the zohar women didnt even cover their hair in their houses. Of course we should aim to be as modest as possible everywhere because we should be aware of Hashem and its good to always be modest.

We halachically have to cover certain parts of our body and our hair (if we are married) in front of men because these parts are considered erva- these parts have the potential to cause forbidden thoughts in men. Zehu

Women dont like this because the American mentality is dont tell me what to do, and men should be responsible for themselves (which they should be and they are obligated to guard their eyes) etc... also its very very hard to downplay ones beauty outside- its the biggest nisayon for women and the biggest korban to Hashem. Women like to hear about every other mitzvah (challah, shabbos etc...) cause those are not nearly as challenging- but the area of modesty and hair covering- forget it!

Men were created with a super strong yetzer to look at women and women were created with a super strong yetzer to be looked at. Both genders need to work on this tremendously. And we see from the secular world what the spiritual challenges are today- we are still in Galus Yavan. Everything is so superficial and based on physical looks and immorality- we have to counter the terrible immodesty out there
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Tue, Jun 19 2018, 10:08 am
Real tznius means going outside in a way that attracts the least attention from men.

The less noticeable a woman is to a man the more modest she is- and I mean noticeable in an unprovocative way. The looser her clothing, the less makeup and jewlery she wears, the lower the heels, the shorter the wig (or the most ideal no wig at all, just a cloth covering)

Working on modesty never ends- there are always ways to improve in modesty
Of course behavior around men is also important- not being overly friendly to men, joking with other men etc..

But men are extremely visual- we have to recognize and respect that and dress accordingly
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 19 2018, 10:15 am
amother wrote:
No one is going to like this post but its the pure emes!
Tznius is ALL about the men. Women do not have to halachically cover their body or their hair in front of other women. As a matter of fact until the zohar women didnt even cover their hair in their houses. Of course we should aim to be as modest as possible everywhere because we should be aware of Hashem and its good to always be modest.

We halachically have to cover certain parts of our body and our hair (if we are married) in front of men because these parts are considered erva- these parts have the potential to cause forbidden thoughts in men. Zehu

Women dont like this because the American mentality is dont tell me what to do, and men should be responsible for themselves (which they should be and they are obligated to guard their eyes) etc... also its very very hard to downplay ones beauty outside- its the biggest nisayon for women and the biggest korban to Hashem. Women like to hear about every other mitzvah (challah, shabbos etc...) cause those are not nearly as challenging- but the area of modesty and hair covering- forget it!

Men were created with a super strong yetzer to look at women and women were created with a super strong yetzer to be looked at. Both genders need to work on this tremendously. And we see from the secular world what the spiritual challenges are today- we are still in Galus Yavan. Everything is so superficial and based on physical looks and immorality- we have to counter the terrible immodesty out there

I would like sources for all you said. Chapter and verse sources. Not you heard in the name of.
My sources- the halachos of shma, halachos of beis kneses, halachos of beis hakisei say that men and women need to be btznius always. Women may not say brachos or shma facing erva (underwear area) of a man or woman. Men may not say brachos or shma facing mens erva (underwear area) or womens erva- expanded to shok, chek, kol, and saar of a married woman.
Both have halachos of how to get dressed while staying covered, how to use the facilities, to avoid nivul peh or lewd thoughts.
Additionally a man whos "forced" to have sx with an erva to him is punished mderaysa by killing him because he is expected to control himself. A woman who is raped is not punished or killed because she is the victim. "Vlnaara al taaseh meuma"(devarim)
This proves that yes we expect self control from men.
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