Help with Teenage Daughters!!!

amother

Tangerine

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 11:20 am

amother wrote:

My question is just: how can I seem so cool when it's pretty obvious that I am a mere human struggling through this challenging stage of life, and that I clearly nree her help?//

It sounds to me like you're separating these 2 things - like either you're cool or you're a struggling human. Why are these opposite sides of a coin? Why can't you be a cool, struggling, human? Most ppl I know are!

I think its healthy and normal for kids to see how we manage in tough times and if she pitches in, well I think she's amazing and you're amazing to have raised a child like that! If the emotional weight of all that's going on isn't her responsibility, then she can certainly view you as a great but flawed human going through some rough times. Everyone has that at some point. Needing help doesn't make us uncool. To me this is not a contradiction.

Thank you, I really appreciate that.

amother

Goldenrod

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 12:41 pm

I don't think there is anything wrong to apologize or openly admit a mistake you made. Every mother gets triggered, just all in a different way. If she pointed out a mistake or flaw you made that was valid, you can say, "I made a mistake and im sorry about it, at the same time, it's still not derech eretz to point it out to your mother that way"
Apologizing doesn't making you look vulnerable, it makes you look like the bigger person.
Regarding your triggers, it must be so hard, but that is something you need to work on your own. A tip to keep in mind, "The only person I can control is myself and no one else" when you feel a need to lash out.
You can also remember that what someone else says about you, is their perspective about you, doesn't necessarily mean its your fault/problem. Since it's your daughter, you do need to mention what and how to say something respectfully to you.
Another thing that might help would be to work on your relationship with your daughter, build up the connection between you two. Keep empathizing with her, this will build up her respect for you more and ultimately change things.

BH5745

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 2:28 pm

I think it's so healthy for your daughter to help out at home! And that she actually volunteers!?! Ok so she needs to learn how to talk to you more respectfully, but you can be sure she loves and respects you and your family by th fact that she helps out unasked.

Feeling needed as a (young adult) member of your family is very important and healthy for an intelligent and independent daughter like yours. If your daughter thought you couldn't manage without her she probably wouldn't volunteer (ironically). She probably derives A LOT of self-esteem and value from her helping at home. Our grandparents understood children who feel needed feel important and behave accordingly.

You also say your daughter makes critical comments in an underhanded way. If she truly didn't respect you she would unlikely be that careful about her choice of wording.

Yes, the chutzpah has to go, but all things considered she sounds like a wonderful young woman whose still working on her imperfections (aren't we all). Maybe you can read "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie (it's available online by odf download too) and then teach your daughter the techniques found in that book? Your DD might want to express opinions in a respectful way, but just not know how. This book is a life changer. It should help you both to improve your communication skills and relationship.

amother

Tangerine

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 2:54 pm

BH5745 wrote:

Thank you, I mean this humbly, but you are absolutely right about my daughter, she is remarkably mature, self aware, helpful, and responsible. Her comments on report cards have read "class role model" since kindergarten, and an elementary school principal told me she hopes she'll come back to teach there one day. I do not take credit for this, her mature nature is Hashem's gift.

But it makes this teen age stage all the more jarring. She's the kind of girl that you take seriously, you forget she's not eighteen, and her comments really hurt, because it doesn't feel like it's coming from a pipsqueak.

I worked so hard to keep my power today, but already comments have come up that I had no idea how to respond to - she asked in a testy way why her little sister is allowed to play in her bedroom when I did not allow her to play in her room when she was younger. I found myself explaining my rule that her toys had to stay in the playroom and living room so that she would stop waking up her siblings at 3 am to play in their room...then I stopped, realizing she really doesnt care about where she played as a three and four year old, she was trying to show me how "controlling" I am again, and that justifying my actions from ten years ago was giving away my power. But I can't think how I SHOULD have responded - just ignored the question? This wasn't one of the scripts I role played the night before! These little passive aggressive comments are really draining and I am not good at deflecting them. I want to change this power dance around, but I can see it's going to be very hard, sigh...

amother

Babyblue

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 3:03 pm

amother wrote:

I worked so hard to keep my power today, but already comments have come up that I had no idea how to respond to - she asked in a testy way why her little sister is allowed to play in her bedroom when I did not allow her to play in her room when she was younger. I found myself explaining my rule that her toys had to stay in the playroom and living room so that she would stop waking up her siblings at 3 am to play in their room...then I stopped, realizing she really doesnt care about where she played as a three and four year old, she was trying to show me how "controlling" I am again, and that justifying my actions from ten years ago was giving away my power. But I can't think how I SHOULD have responded - just ignored the question? This wasn't one of the scripts I role played the night before! These little passive aggressive comments are really draining and I am not good at deflecting them. I want to change this power dance around, but I can see it's going to be very hard, sigh...

You might benefit from therapy WITH her. Joint therapy. Like couples therapy. Sounds to me she feels you controlled her to the point where she was forced to be a model child. Now she is resentful about it and is brave enough to bring it up with you. Instead of defending yourself, you can say, "you are asking why your sister is allowed to play in her room and you weren't. I think I was very controlling when you were younger and over the years I am learning to let go of controlling my children. I am thinking it might serve us to go see a therapist together, to talk out these issues in a supportive environment. Would you be interested?"

amother

Tangerine

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 3:10 pm

[quote="amother"]You might benefit from therapy WITH her. Joint therapy. Like couples therapy. Sounds to me she feels you controlled her to the point where she was forced to be a model child. Now she is resentful about it and is brave enough to bring it up with you. Instead of defending yourself, you can say, "you are asking why your sister is allowed to play in her room and you weren't. I think I was very controlling when you were younger and over the years I am learning to let go of controlling my children. I am thinking it might serve us to go see a therapist together, to talk out these issues in a supportive environment.

Perhaps there is some truth to what you're suggesting, it's overwhelming to me to contemplate.

But I also really think it's a teenage discovery/independence thing, and I really would like some advice on how to just deflect comments like the one I just posted above. Thank you.

Fox

Tue, Nov 21 2017, 3:33 pm

amother wrote:

But how can I seem so in control and " cool " if she knows how much I need her her help?

So about a year ago, my 23-year-old, Clementine, said something to me when we were in the car. We were talking about personality traits in kids and parents, and she said, "The thing about you is that you're very secure about your insecurities."

Now, this was an uncannily accurate assessment on Clem's part. Despite my online persona, I have the confidence and self-esteem of a gnat. My mother used to say that if a bum on the street told me he didn't like my dress, I'd go home and change.

I wish I were different. I also wish I had to drink milkshakes every day to avoid having size 2 clothes hang loose. But at a certain point you have to say, "Listen, Hashem created me with these problems, and I can try to work on them, but I also have to choose not to ruin my life over them." You have to own your imperfections.

My personal way of owning my imperfections is through humor. I guess I watched too many BBC programs (programmes?) on public TV as a kid, because I revel in British-style self-deprecating humor. At the same time, my jokes often reference my strengths. I'll talk about my hatred of cooking by saying, "I'll happily write resumes for people or edit stuff for the Shneipenheimer Rebbe all day, but don't count on me to cook a dinner for the poor or sick. They'll starve to death waiting for it."

Other people have different ways of owning their imperfections. My way doesn't necessarily work for everyone.

But I do think it's possible to show kids that perfect shouldn't be the enemy of good.

Yeah, it would be nice if you had house elves or however it is that people keep everything clean and perfectly organized and their little kids coralled. It's a great goal. But own the bedlam, laugh about it, and have a good time. Ultimately, I think kids benefit more from seeing their parents make peace with imperfection than be destroyed by lack of perfection.

Wow! A whole post with no animals!

spikta

Wed, Nov 22 2017, 12:28 pm

I'm a few years away from mom to teens status yet, but maybe this will help.

When my kids, or people in general, say things that irritate/hurt/enrage me, I try to take a step back and think about what the needs and thoughts and motivations are. I try to respond less to the literal content of what they say and more to what I think their need is.

For example, when my daughter asks me why her little brother gets to stay up later (Because he napped and you didn't... No that wasn't a nap, that was lying down for 2 minutes on the couch... No, your eyes weren't closed... Yes, you are tired, that's why you're crying every 2 minutes!! ... etc. etc. etc.), she's not actually asking an informational question. She's bummed that her brother gets something she doesn't, and a logical answer won't make her less bummed. What do you want to be told when you feel that you got unfair treatment from your parents? You want to be heard. You want to be told you're loved just as much. So I usually respond with empathy - that it stinks having to go to bed earlier. And I try to strengthen our connection -How about we set everything up so that when he naps tomorrow, we'll play together just you and me?

So perhaps try to out-armchair psychologist your armchair psychologist? When she says these things that are difficult for you to hear, what is she needing from you really? To me it seems that she doesn't want just a logical, factual explanation, although that may help, I don't know. I would start by just trying to understand what she's feeling. Like in the example you gave with the playing in her room, I might respond with - "You feel hurt because your sister is allowed to do something that you weren't?". That may earn you a whole barrage of how unfair and hard her life is, to which I'd try just to listen with a lot of empathy. You're the cool mom, she's the kid. It's hard being a kid, and listening with empathy isn't an admission of wrongdoing, it's a sign of strength. Or maybe something completely different will pop up, I don't know. You're allowed to ask again until you get it right. People generally want to be understood. Maybe, once she feels heard, you can brainstorm ways to make her feel more appreciated. Maybe she'll suggest something you'd never thought of, and won't be too hard for you.

So I guess you could sum up my super long post with - When she says something hurtful to you, she's not trying to hurt you (well, maybe she is, but that's definitely not her main goal). She's trying to show you that something hurts her. Try to respond to that, not to the hurtful content, and figure out what she really wants from you. Then you'll do more listening, less talking, and won't have to come up with responses for every scenario.

Fox

Wed, Nov 22 2017, 2:07 pm

studying_torah wrote:

. . . what do you mean regarding being a "cool" parent? I am and never was cool.

That's where you're wrong! You are a very cool mom! How do I know?

Quote:

Boys may come and boys may go
And that's all right, you see
Experience has made me rich
And now they're after me

Material Girl

This is what happens when my DH prefers that I don't get into spouting halacha or hashkafa -- I quote Madonna lyrics. Talk about unintended consequences!

While hopefully none of us have a lot of experience with boys coming and going, we all have a lot more life experience than these little people we take care of. We've seen things, been places, and done things that they will never, ever do. Sure, they'll eventually have experiences that we won't have, but who cares. Our experience has made us cool, and they can darned well be impressed.

Part of parenting a teenage girl means playing a little hard to get. Teenagers in general are incredibly self-absorbed, and they disdain anything that comes too cheaply. Unfortunately, that includes their mothers' love and attention. That's why it's important to always make it seem like you are choosing to be a wife and mother, but that you have lots of other exciting things you could be doing.

Now comes the part of my advice that people are going to less enthused about:

The easiest way, IMHO, to strike the balance between loving and hard-to-get is to make sure you have interests and passions outside your family -- and make sure they know it.

I know. I know. You don't have time. You don't have money. It's impossible. BTDT. But I'm not necessarily talking about hobbies; I just mean that you make sure your interests, ideas, and opinions get some attention, too.

Among the topics I torture my family with are baby flying fox bats; politics (of course!); quilting; nail art; and whatever I'm reading about at any given time. When I talk about most of these topics, my kids roll their eyes so far back in their heads I can hear them click.

While I do enjoy baby flying fox videos, I don't really care if they do. I do care, however, that they have ample evidence that I'm a multi-dimensional person who has a life and identity outside of being at their emotional beck and call. Even if all the "identity" I can muster on some days is watching a baby flying fox video.

Again, I'm not talking about being aloof in a dysfunctional, extreme way. I'm taking it for granted that everyone here loves her DD and wants the best for her. But teenage girls, in particular, take their loving mothers for granted. The best way to be cool is by making it clear through your actions that you expect a bit more reciprocity as they lurch toward adulthood. You are choosing to spend time with your DD, and you have a certain amount of patience because she is a work in progress. That said, if she persists in needlessly focusing on your shortcomings, you have plenty of other exciting things to do with your time. Like watching baby bat videos.

amother

Tangerine

Wed, Nov 22 2017, 2:12 pm

Fox wrote:

Op here, lol, love it! Once again, the exact message I needed to hear...thanks Fox, I really appreciate you giving all of us on this thread your time.

amother

Tangerine

Wed, Nov 22 2017, 2:12 pm

Fox wrote:

Op here, lol, love it! Once again, the exact message I needed to hear...thanks Fox, I really appreciate you giving all of us on this thread your time.

amother

Tangerine

Wed, Nov 22 2017, 4:26 pm

spikta wrote:

This is good advice for younger children, and definitely the way I parented my kids from toddlerhood through elementary school. As they become teens, responses like the ones you described actually don't work anymore, not because your premise (highlighting the emotion behind the question and empathizing with it) no longer holds true, but because teens don't buy into it anymore. A teen would respond to "are you feeling like I didn't give you the same freedom as your little sister?" with "Ma, have you been reading one of those psychology books again, please talk normal." This is because on some level, they WANT a power struggle with you, not just empathy and understanding. They are teens, and they want a good challenge, they want to see how much they can push authority, it's not always about feeling understood. That's why a mother seeking to retain her power sometimes just needs a quick line to deflect the challenge, or to just ignore. I know it's not warm and fuzzy, but teens really are more complicated than younger kids, who are not full of raging independence seeking feelings.