Wonderful parsha inspiration!

amother

Crimson

Fri, Nov 24 2017, 3:04 am

mandksima wrote:

I am so sad that you are in pain. I had hoped this would be an inspiration to others and hopefully someone will find comfort in this parsha article I found.

Thanks, actually my life is quite wonderful. It is possible to have a strong reaction to something even if it doesn't affect me directly.

Sometimes I read these articles where people act like they know the secrets of life, and I think there's a terrible potential for hurting others. Again, if you find this comforting or inspiring, that's wonderful. But please, please, do not try to apply this to someone else.

mandksima

Fri, Nov 24 2017, 3:18 am

amother wrote:

But how could I not try to help someone in the very way that has helped me? I only survived my own crisis through these beliefs.

If you feel your life is wonderful and your response is not coming from pain, I'd like to understand it more. How does it hurt people? Is it better to believe that suffering is given randomly and for no reason? If you don't wish to discuss, that is fine too.

amother

Crimson

Fri, Nov 24 2017, 4:28 am

mandksima wrote:

I'm happy to discuss.

First, people are different. What's inspirational to you may be simplistic to someone else.

Second, a person in pain needs validation and sympathy. When you say, in effect, oh, your problems aren't problems, there are just a prelude to something better, you are dismissing the person's pain, and that is unkind. If she herself reaches a conclusion that her suffering has meaning, that is wonderful. But you can't do that for someone else. Only the person suffering can reach an understanding of her situation.

I am sorry that you went through a crisis, and I'm so glad you found something that helped. But just as you can't do physical therapy for someone else, you can't make someone have a spiritual insight. She has to reach out.

mandksima

Fri, Nov 24 2017, 7:27 am

There are times to try to be inspirational in this way, you are right. I would never attempt to say everything is for the best in a shiva house or if someone clearly just wants support and a listening ear. It has to be someone looking for help.

People, though, who are seeking inspiration through the lessons learned from the Tanach, are going to come across many instances that, according to the sensitivity you are talking about, would be called callous or cruel. The intention is to teach us life lessons.

In this parsha, I just heard an interesting thing from Rabbi Ephraim Sprecher. Yaakov, upon hearing his beloved wife, Rachel, complain that without children she will die, yells at her in frustration that she would say such a thing and not realize she has her own worthy life to live even without children. One would think sensitive Yaakov would not be harsh at all and would say sweet, loving things to his inconsolable wife but instead he says what he does. Why? Yaakov is all about Emes. He was so shocked to hear Rachel thought such sheker, that her life is nothing without children. He knew she had such potential to lead a wonderful and productive life and needed her to know that. He was aghast at the thought that someone would let themself say and believe such sheker. He couldn't deal with falsehoods. Being childless is one of the worst pains. I am sure he felt her pain but we need to live in a world of emes and sometimes a shock of behavior like his could help her realize her mistake. After that, she asks for the dudaim/mandrakes in order to do an necessary action to help herself and not just daven. Yaakov helped her become proactive because Hashem helps those who help themselves. Davening is only one part of it.

Now, we are not on their level and I would never propose to yell at someone for not realizing their worth nowadays but I'm using this example to demonstrate certain truths. Yes, we need sensitivity but we also need to find ways to help our loved ones sees the truths that they are denying themselves. There is no kindness in letting someone delude themselves past an initial point of grieving. I am also referring to only addressing those who have Torah in their lives and understand Emunah otherwise a different direction needs to be made but aren't we talking about frum Jews? Deeds of our fathers are signs for their sons. We are meant to learn from and copy the actions and words of our avot. We may have to be more sensitive in our weaker and farther-away-from-Hashem's-revealment kind of generation but we still have to plow through the sheker to get to the emes.

How do you feel about this?

amother

Crimson

Fri, Nov 24 2017, 7:38 am

The rules might be different for Yaakov Avinu. Wink

Now it's true that we don't always know what's best for us. Rachel Imenu cried that she would die if she didn't have children. In a tragic dramatic irony, it's childbirth that kills her. But no one tried to tell her as she was dying that it was all for the best, because her death would eventually be a catalyst for yetzias mitzrayim.

ETA: we do have an example of Tanach where people try to explain bad things, and that's in sefer Iyyov, where Iyyov's companions suggest how he should understand his suffering. Hashem makes very clear at the end of the sefer that we can't know why things happen and shouldn't try to explain. It's bleak but it's there.

imasoftov

Sat, Nov 25 2017, 11:24 am

On the other hand, a Midrash in Bereshit Rabba 71 is critical of Yaakov's answer to Rachel. Nechama Leibowitz refers to it as 71:10 but the link below is to 71:7, numbering in Midrash Rabba varies between editions. A shorter version appears in Yalkut Shimoni, Iyov 15.

https://www.sefaria.org.il/Ber.....ng=he

The midrash begins with Iyov 15:2, "Shall a wise man raise his voice with opinions of wind, and does he fill his belly with the east wind?" and applies the second part to Yaakov when he became angry at Rachel, and says that God responded, "Is this how one speaks to someone in distress!? By your life, your children will stand before hers," referring to Yosef, who will say (nearly, one uses ani and the other anochi) the same thing to his brothers that Yaakov said to Rachel, "am I in the place of God?"

mandksima

Sat, Nov 25 2017, 4:33 pm

Yeah, I was thinking that when I used Yaakov as an example. He is criticized for his lack of proper sensitivity. That's why I didn't suggest saying such a thing at the time of crisis. You can never have too much sensitivity.

Back to the original parsha inspiriation though: I just think people benefit from the belief that Hashem only does good and sometimes we won't see it right away but we know everything is ultimately benevolent. Yes, we can't know why things happen and we can't usually explain but the underlying belief that it is for the best is necessary. We understand so little of our lives yet we have to make some sense of it for our own sanity or rely on Hashem that He knows best. There is so much harm from not believing that although we still can daven to change our original fate.

Davening to Hashem is what changed Rachel's fertility. Her reliance on Hashem after exhausting Yaakov's ability to daven for her and using Leah's mandrakes. Neither of those worked and she conceives only when Hashem remembers her chessed in giving Leah the signs.