Why are you frum? | Imamother

Blue jay

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 10:56 am

Before being religious, I believed in Ha-shem but I did not know how to connect to him and to see him in the world around me. I cried out to him when I needed help and was thankful for my blessings, but deep down I knew I was not fufilling all the mitzvot I was supposed to be doing. I felt I was not living up to my end of the bargain. As a child I learned about keeping mitzvot in the Orthodox Hebrew school I attended and also about the holiness and middos of our avos and emot. I was always inspired and moved by the stories of the Torah and hoped one day I would be able to incooperate it into my life.
As a college student I began to see the secular world in a new light. I wanted to date seriously with the intentions of marrying but the boys I dated just wanted a "fling". I saw good and respectable woman around me behaving in immodest ways just to get boys attention. ( drinking and socializing in bars and clubs) Was this the way I was going to meet a nice Jewish boy? Was it wrong for me to want to marry and have a family?
After a few dates and encounters in the world of secular dating, I was done and seriously depressed!
I did not know any frum Jews but B'H I went to a school that was offering a birthright trip and I began to read about the history of the Jewish people. (Max Dimonts "History of the Jews") . During a lecture in middle east studies I would read my "history of the Jews" under my desk while the Professor spoke about his experiences living in Tunisia. I wanted to know all there is to know about my people! Around this time, I met my future dh who also had a deep respect for the Torah. Together we learned and explored one mitzvot at a time. B'H our children are growing up in a home filled with Torah and learning!
I feel so blessed that Torah was always respected in my home growing up as a child and that I attended an orthodox hebrew school with wonderful teachers. Without these tools I would have never questioned the world around me. I would never had known about how Avraham Aveinu followed in Ha-shems ways despite all the criticism and rejections by his family and the world around him. The values of the Torah have transformed my life and have given me my husband, home and my family. I am deeply grateful. I pray everyday to strive to become closer to Ha-shem!

Last edited by Blue jay on Fri, Dec 08 2017, 11:12 am; edited 2 times in total

shoshanim999

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 11:10 am

simba wrote:

I was thinking about this. We are so busy with the actions that the motives and inspiration become secondary.

This thread is intended to be interesting and inspiring. Not a place to bash frum life and the reasons for it.

I will start..
I am frum because:

I was born into it
It gives me safety
It gives me community
It gives me purpose
It gives me meaning
It gives me direction
It gives me richness
it gives me beauty

It relieves me of the endless options in the free world
It relevies me of the responsibility Of deciding what is moral
It relieves me from despair when in pain

Ok..I'll come back with more when it hits me.

[u]

I think the bolded is actually very confusing. On one hand we say the torah is perfect. It is the word of hashem and the ideal life would be if we lived by every single word in the torah. But the torah says certain things that are difficult to reconcile with what we TRULY believe is moral. The torah explicitly says that if we see someone worshiping another god, he should be killed. (I think his family as well, and possibly the whole town.) If someone curses hashem they should be killed. Many off the derech people would probably be executed. If someone curses their parents, we kill them. Again, are you honestly saying you would like to see this today? A person who steals has their arm cut off? I think many people blindly say that the torah is a moral code. The truth is it's all very confusing.

InnerMe

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 12:06 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Here's my thoughts on this:
The torah is perfect. It's dictates are perfect. Because G-d is perfect.
It is difficult to reconcile because our human brains are not perfect. We are limited in our understanding. Now what you say about killing people, that is not the case today. Because we don't have a bais hamikdash. According to Torah, you are not allowed to kill if someone does any of the wrongdoing above. Because this is only allowed through a proper bais din. Which will only be once the beis hamikdash is rebuilt. So would I like to see this today? Honestly, with my 2017 lense, that sounds completely horrific. But I know that I am limited in my understanding. And that the ultimate will be when the the beis hamikdash is rebuilt, a time that "melo kal haretz kevado" G-d's presence will be known throughout the world. And yes, in that time if G-d says that someone who curses His name, is brought to din torah, and determined guilty, that that person should be killed then that must be perfect too. Can I say I comprehend it? No. Far from it. Aside from knowing, my mind is limited I also know that I've never lived in such times, so I honestly can have no idea how that would play out.

It would be interesting to hear from people that lived in times of the beis hamikdash what their thoughts were on this. Did people think this was inhumane? Did they question the legitimacy of a G-d that can be so harsh? What do you think their answers might have been. Anyone on here who lived back then, can you please help us out? LOL

Basically your post stands on the premise that ultimately *we* decide what's moral and what's not. And since we are in the in the 21st century, many things in the torah at best seem quaint, at worse seem cruel and despicable. But this train of the thought lacks the understanding that *we* are not perfect in our understanding of moral. And that yes, we defer to a Higher Authority for that code of morality.

leah233

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 12:10 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

In general it is extremely difficult and rare to meet the conditions of capital punishment even by a capital offense.

The Torah does NOT say (1) that if we see someone worshiping idols, he should be killed with his family as well, and possibly the whole town etc. (2) it doesn't say that a person who steals should have their arms cut off . It does speaking about cutting off someone's hand but the mesorah of Torah S'Baal Peh does not understand that as literal under any circumstance.

Mommyg8

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 12:21 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

I'm not sure where you are getting this information. Someone who steals gets his arm cut off? Which religion is this? I think you're mixing things up.

And the other things you wrote... the halachos are extremely complex, it's certainly not as simple as you're making it sound.

You know what? The religion you're describing.... I don't believe in it either.

shoshanim999

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 12:31 pm

InnerMe wrote:

Granted, but the op seemed to be comfortable with the moral guide the torah provides for us. What you are saying, and I agree with, is that the moral code doesn't really make sense to us humans in 2017. That's a far cry from being comfortable with it.

shoshanim999

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 12:35 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Is it simple in terms of these things making sense and being inline with what we mere mortals consider moral, or do we simply accept it because if hashem says it, it must be just? In other words are you comfortable with it because it makes sense or because hashem said it?

Mommyg8

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 12:46 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

One more time, these laws are complex. It just doesn't work like that, we don't go around killing people, even in the olden days. There are many, many parameters. Do you know them all? I don't. But I do know that it's not as simple as you are making it sound.

As for your last question - the laws make sense to me. I think things through a lot, and I've thought about this too. I've taken the time to clarify some halachos that were perplexing to me. So, yes, I am comfortable with torah and mitzvos, and they make sense to me.

My only thought is that sometimes, for some people, acceptance has to come from an emotional direction as well as an intellectual one.

Optimystic

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 12:49 pm

None of the available options really fit me. If I could, I would have selected something like:

FFB, but not Orthodox until educated, always thought about it, but never chose it.

What I think about is why God could not just have put me in an Orthodox family from birth in a religious community. Yes, Conservative shuls were more religious back then than they are now, but it still set me up for failure when it came time to find my bashert. Men with my values saw a BT and assumed unpleasant things about my past or my character, and men who would accept me did not meet my standards with one somewhat belated exception. And so now I am childless, infertile, and except for a short time, alone.

I would never have chosen any of that.

tigerwife

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 1:07 pm

QueenBee3 wrote:

Beautiful post! Thanks so much for sharing!

InnerMe

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 1:14 pm

Optimystic wrote:

Hugs. This sounds so painful, difficult and lonely. Hug

InnerMe

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 1:24 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Are you uncomfortable that this is the religion you ascribe to and there are stuff that you cannot reconcile with your morals? Because as I said, today's days this capital punishment you are referring to does not exist. So it's not like you'd encounter it in real life.

Also I think Simba has a point. When I was learning the history of the Baal Teshuva movement from a sociological perspective, I learnt that for a portion of baal teshuva's, thier reason for becoming frum is so they have a framework within which to live in. It helps them ground them the rules. I think that's what Simba was referring to. Things that are relevant to thier everyday lives. Like traditional marriage. Focus on building a family. There were excerpts from Baalei teshuva, who said that in the secular world they felt very lost. Everything was permissible. They found the rules comforting, and it helped give their life a path, and direction.
This is just for a portion of the balei teshuva world, but it definitely exists. So I understand Simba's point to be that she appreciates that Torah Judaism gives her life a frame of reference for her moral decisions. The consequences you cite for our purposes are not relevant, as we don't ever encounter this today.

InnerMe

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 1:45 pm

And now to answer why I am frum..

My answers are many and some of them contradict each other, and I'll probably just have to cut my thoughts short, because writing all my feelings would fill a book.
I am frum because this is what I was born into, and this has been life for me as I know it since I was little.

I am also frum because I thought about it. And I do appreciate Judaism's beauty and spirituality. I feel like I can have a real connection to G-d through my actions. My life has purpose and meaning. Everything I do can be uplifted and enhanced by doing it in G-dly ways that bring kedusha to this world. It is empowering that I can make my physical being into something greater then it's part be being holy, by sanctifying G-d's name. By bringing kindness and goodness and light to this world. I appreciate that I am not merely a physical being with physical needs and desires... I have powers so great they can transcend the physical. I am grateful that I can feel that G-d is a part of me and my life. That G-d created me in his image. That there is an essence of kedusha and G-dliness in myself. This greatly enriches my life. It brings purpose, and meaning and clarity. It makes me feel so important and valuable that I can transcend the physical and enter the realm of spiritual. I appreciate that I have a guide to help me out with difficult times. That I can ask a Rav a question, and feel assured that I am doing the right thing. It gives my life a vessel in which good things can reside. It makes my life defineable and not a strechy thing with no boundaries. It confines the physical to make room for the spiritual.

It's something that I cannot fully put into words. Words are too plain to express this overwhelming feeling of I am so great and have so much potential because of my connection with G-d and his torah.

Can I say there's nothing in the secular world that tempts me? Of course not. In fact I was the OP of the thread about what you'd do if you'd be given a free pass. But at the end of the day anything of that cannot compare to the wealth and depth that torah life gives me. It's this deep inner feeling of being able to feel and be part of heaven on earth. I am grateful I was born into this, because I cannot know if would have found this on my own. I am also grateful that I can feel all this despite being so used to it. That G-d enabled me to discover the beauty and depth of the way of life I was born into. It gives my life dimension. To me living without it, is comparable to having a diamond and giving it up for a fake. It's a way of life, that humbles me, and puts me on a spot in this giant world. It gives me strength and context and depth. It lifts my earthly self so high, and allows me to feel the warmth and spirituality of the heavens. After all if my all knowing G-d believes in me, and trusts me, and looks out for me personally, what greater feeling of love and reassurance can I have?
Torah Judaism makes me feel treasured and valued beyond belief.

InnerMe

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 2:27 pm

Optimystic wrote:

So, still thinking about this question, and this is what I came up with:

If frumkeit is oxygen, I was born into a smoke-filled room and have been finding my way towards fresh air ever since. At the same time, I was scarred by the smoke, and from time to time, I even miss the smoke, but there was never a question that I need oxygen.

I love your beautiful analogy.
Hatzlacha in your journey towards greater air quality. And perhaps the smoke filled years give you a greater appreciation of the oxygen then people who have always been with oxygen.