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Why is fake trief food considered Kosher?
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 5:50 am
tichellady wrote:
Food is not religious. Kosher style brisket is not kosher, it doesn’t matter how you feel about it. Kosher fake crab is Kosher, regardless of your comfort level. You are confusing two very different things.

I've run into posts here and there suggesting that eating foods that we didn't recently adapt from surrounding cultures is somehow less Jewish (or whatever you want to call it) than foods that we think of as Jewish but resemble the food of wherever our families lived before they moved to wherever we are now and I don't understand that either.
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Simple1




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 6:56 am
Parve whip cream is actually a very "frum" food. Only recently have we started seeing chalav Yisrael dairy whip cream in stores.

The only reason I'd avoid parve whip is because it's so unhealthy.
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nw11




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 7:00 am
Halacha doesn't take emotional feelings into account.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 7:24 am
Potatoes aren't really Jewish either. They weren't a staple in the desert. Yet somehow potato kugel made it into "Jewish" foods.

OP, go enjoy your cheeseburger made with kosher meat and fake cheese or your veggie burger with real cheese. It won't tarnish your soul.
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amother
Orange


 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 7:34 am
I appreciate your sensitivity but wouldn't make deal over it...
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 7:55 am
Shnitzel is German. The Germans killed us. We still for some reason consider it to be kosher.
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octopus




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 8:01 am
Bringing pesach bagels into the mix is a totally different level, and probably doesn't belong here. I thought the reason for not allowing kitniyos was for exactly that reason! That people shouldn't make things that look like bread! Although I'm not really sure the pesach bagels really look like bagels (can't imagine they do).

I have never had any desire for a fake cheeseburger and I tasted the fake crab and had to spit it out. And I'm not a BT. And I'm not a fafrumte. And I will serve pareve ice cream at my shabbos table. Tongue Out
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 8:03 am
Your question shows a very very deep lack of understanding kashrus
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amother
Ruby


 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 8:07 am
Simple1 wrote:
Parve whip cream is actually a very "frum" food. Only recently have we started seeing chalav Yisrael dairy whip cream in stores.

The only reason I'd avoid parve whip is because it's so unhealthy.


It’s very frum because most of rest of the worlds population uses real cream in their desserts. The product was invented so that frum people could mimic dairy desserts...

But if you’ve grown up with it... it’s just normal frum.

I didn’t grow up with parve ice cream ( resembling real ice cream) and I find it super bizarre that it’s basically a requirement at my rebbitzens Shabbos table. Looks off to me.
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amother
Ruby


 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 8:09 am
Ruchel wrote:
Your question shows a very very deep lack of understanding kashrus


Mass produced bread made with milk can’t get a hechsher where I live. Kosher goes beyond ingredients.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 8:16 am
Its like taking a non tzanua piece of clothing and adding a shell or underskirt to it to make it wearable. Its all kosher.
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pause




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 8:52 am
amother wrote:
This. Also, what a lot of people who haven't really studied halacha don't realize is that halacha is often counter to what you would think. The reason you need to ask a Rav if you're unsure about something is not because he's memorized the shulchan aruch and you haven't; it's because he understands the entire halachic system and knows what details make a difference and how halachic conclusions are reached, which isn't always intuitive or logical. If there are 3 pieces of meat on the table and you KNOW one of them is treif, you are allowed, according to halacha, to eat all three. No matter how much that doesn't make sense, that is what the halacha says. Halacha is based on what a specific set of rules says it is, not what you feel it should be.

Huh? Can you elaborate and source this?
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pause




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 8:56 am
amother wrote:
Mass produced bread made with milk can’t get a hechsher where I live. Kosher goes beyond ingredients.

Because halacha is that bread can't be dairy unless there's a siman on the bread itself.
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dancingqueen




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 9:22 am
Op, if it bothers you, don’t eat it. But seems to me that making a rule about it might be a problem of baal tosif. Personally we’re having veggie burgers with cheese for dinner at my house tonight.
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amother
Ruby


 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 9:41 am
pause wrote:
Because halacha is that bread can't be dairy unless there's a siman on the bread itself.


Exactly. So if a new posek says we can’t eat a cheeseburger unless it’s stamped with a siman - that would make it ‘treif’ too. My point is it’s not off the charts to consider something treif when the ingredients are not.
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GiGichai




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 9:55 am
One rav nowadays is nowhere near the madreiga of the authors of the gemara, thousands of years old. Don't equate fake bacon etc, with putting a siman on dairy bread...
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amother
Ruby


 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 11:26 am
GiGichai wrote:
One rav nowadays is nowhere near the madreiga of the authors of the gemara, thousands of years old. Don't equate fake bacon etc, with putting a siman on dairy bread...


I’m not equating them. I’m saying that we have examples that kosher isn’t always as straight forward as just eating ingredient kosher things. Because that’s part of our kosher culture, it’s not unusable to question eating things that don’t look kosher. In the end of it - poseks aren’t afik making new Halacha banning ‘looks like treif’.
(In my town, the kashrut folks do make a big issue of the rules around ‘marres ayin).

I think in reality ‘looks like treif’ is a knee jerk reaction to trying to emulate g-yim.
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 11:34 am
pause wrote:
Because halacha is that bread can't be dairy unless there's a siman on the bread itself.


But the packaging can be considered the siman. Right? That's why people can buy dairy english muffins, etc. The OUD on the packaging IS the siman.
So if someone is gong to apply this logic to treyf-style kosher food, well, there is the kosher labeling on the package to be your siman.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 12:11 pm
saw50st8 wrote:
Potatoes aren't really Jewish either. They weren't a staple in the desert.

Next you'll tell me the man didn't arrive in the form of four kugels, with the kuf being kartoffel, on Parshas Zachor!
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 12:20 pm
amother wrote:
I’m not equating them. I’m saying that we have examples that kosher isn’t always as straight forward as just eating ingredient kosher things. Because that’s part of our kosher culture, it’s not unusable to question eating things that don’t look kosher. In the end of it - poseks aren’t afik making new Halacha banning ‘looks like treif’.
(In my town, the kashrut folks do make a big issue of the rules around ‘marres ayin).

I think in reality ‘looks like treif’ is a knee jerk reaction to trying to emulate g-yim.


Bread that is dairy is not treif, it just needs to be in a different shape than regular bread. That is very different than saying it’s treif.
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