Overcoming Black and White thinking

amother

Emerald

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 7:55 am

DS11 is very often black and white in his thinking and it is incredibly frustrating, especially when he honestly doesn't understand what the problem is.

Some examples:

- I told him he had to be in bed by 8:45 but he was lingering and it got late. I kept reminding him that he was late so he said 'but it's past 8:45 already so why should I go to bed?' so I joked 'okay, so you'll wait until the next time it's 8:45?' A short while later he's still sitting on the stairs instead of going to bed so I asked him why he isn't in bed and he says 'you said I don't have to to go bed now'.

- Another bedtime example, I remind him to get into pj's and brush his teeth and after a while he's still coming down asking for this and that so I say 'please, just go to bed already!' so he says, 'oh, so I get to skip brushing my teeth tonight?' when I explain that no, bedtime routine includes teeth brushing he'll say 'oh, but you said I should go into bed'.

I can't think of some more, but there are plenty. He is a regular intelligent kid, socially included, well-liked, not Asperger's or on the spectrum, but this sometimes serves as a real stumbling block.

So, how does one help a child overcome this type of thinking?

dr. pepper

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 8:06 am

When my kids react that way to similar conversations, I will explain to them the concept of an "expression." They seem to get the hang of it eventually. though to be honest, some of my black and white thinkers have a harder time.

And just to clarify, this is more an issue of literal thinking. Black and white I tend to think of as a broader issue: lacking flexibly overall, difficulty with other perspectives...etc.
But I am just nitpicking Very Happy

yogabird

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 8:29 am

You can read Amelia bedelia books with him to teach him the concept of idioms/Literal vs figurative.

Then you can go through a bunch of examples. Google list of common idioms.

Then be mindful, when you're using an idiom, to point it out to him, or ask if he thinks you mean it literally or figuratively.

amother

Salmon

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 8:53 am

Is he truly not understanding?
Or just being funny?
If it’s true, I think it would have shown up in his academics as well, especially in comprehension.
I would say haha now go brush your teeth and get to bed. Just in case I would be very specific in my instructions

amother

Emerald

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 8:57 am

Thanks dr. pepper and yogabird!
You're right, it's more literal thinking, though he can be inflexible too.

As an intelligent kid, he actually enjoys idioms so I can't see that helping. The examples I gave actually don't use any idioms at all.

Say I said he has to be in bed by 8:45 so since it's past 8:45 he doesn't need to go to bed anymore?!? He was just sitting there doing nothing, I only joked after he clearly wasn't going to bed.

Another issue with the 'just go to bed' example, he can actually tell me all confused that I'm contradicting myself all the time. Before you said I need to brush my teeth and now you're telling me to go to bed, so what should I do?

amother

Emerald

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 8:58 am

amother wrote:

He seems genuinely confused but no, none of his teachers have ever complained.

ontheotherside

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 11:01 am

I think your little one is pulling avfast one on your for attention. Negative attention is better than no attention. Perhaps he likes to get a rise out of you and will get the next academy award. Maybe if you spend 15 minutes prior to the bedtime outline with him just alone and tell him you appreciate him for being smart witty ect....and that you want to spend special time just with him....then when it’s bedtiem you tell him please do AB and C in THAT order so there is no confusion as to what needs to be done it will come from a more positive place than you getting annoyed and sending him off to bed like that......if school hasn’t complained he clearly doesn’t have that issue all the time and this may be a case of just needed a little one on one time from his mommy .....I hope you can resolve this with patience (I know it’s not always easy!)

amother

Emerald

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 11:52 am

ontheotherside wrote:

On the rare occasion, it's attention seeking, but it happens in other scenarios as well. Not just bedtime. Of course he likes to delay bedtime, like many kids his age, but it manifests itself in other ways as well so I believe it is more of an issue than it seems. We also spend lots of one on one time, and the literal thinking comes up then as well, so I doubt that's the issue.

seeker

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 1:04 pm

From the examples you gave, both about not going to bed promptly, it's hard to tell whether he has a flexible thinking problem or is just trying to be a smart aleck and extend your attention past bedtime. If you're pretty sure it's a literal/inflexible thinking issue, maybe try recalling some more examples to illustrate what's going on?

In general, it's helpful to go through a lot of examples with the child, over and over, as they come up, in literature, in life, just for fun... practice makes, well, not perfect but more fluent anyway.

imasinger

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 7:15 pm

I suggest a written checklist.

That way, all you have to do is say, "do your nighttime checklist", and there is less room for misinterpretation. Bedtime can be on the checklist.

You can offer a small intangible reward for completing it properly, and possibly a small consequence for not completing it and getting to bed on time.

This approach can work with other areas where he is not complying, not just bedtime.

In general, someone who really doesn't understand these basics by age 11 may need some further attention to be sure there truly is no diagnosis. In your examples, these arguments/discussions come at a time when he doesn't want to obey. That's why it seems unclear whether he may be yanking your chain, or is actually confused.

In any case, a written list will go a long way towards preventing this kind of scene.

trixx

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 8:51 pm

It sounds to me like the kind of kid who needs to be told what to do. I would encourage creative play and discuss scenarios like "what do you think would have happened if"... Open ended stuff. Like he's so literal he needs to be told what to do and probably has no imagination, which for a boy that age you might not see bc it's girls who get really crafty and artistic then

amother

Oak

Tue, Nov 13 2018, 10:01 am

Chiming in here as a speech language pathologist. He may have a pragmatic language disorder. You can look up some books by Michelle Garcia winner on the topic of social thinkingfor ideas of how to address these issues on your own. Perhaps an evaluation with a speech langauge pathologist would be of help here, but please note that not all SLP's are experts at this area! In Lakewood, I would suggest Devorah Himy, although I am not sure that you live near there!

Much Hatzlacha!