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Would you eat in their house?

 
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amother




Smokey


Post  Thu, Jan 11 2018, 9:43 pm
My friend is a BT she is frum but a bit on the modern side.
She has full time live in help which she leaves alone for hours. The live in also cooks. Supposedly someone opens the fire for her.
She also has several kids who are OTD.
I have been in their house on yom tov and witnessed one of her kids tearing paper towels to wipe something up, they also shut off a flame and then turned it back on.
Would you feel comfortable eating in their house?
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amother




Periwinkle


Post  Thu, Jan 11 2018, 9:47 pm
I was taught that if a jew tells me food is kosher, then it's not on me to question it (unless I have direct evidence to the contrary). So, yes, I would eat at their home.

I would probably be less comfortable with them bringing their food into my home.
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southernbubby









  


Post  Thu, Jan 11 2018, 9:56 pm
amother wrote:
My friend is a BT she is frum but a bit on the modern side.
She has full time live in help which she leaves alone for hours. The live in also cooks. Supposedly someone opens the fire for her.
She also has several kids who are OTD.
I have been in their house on yom tov and witnessed one of her kids tearing paper towels to wipe something up, they also shut off a flame and then turned it back on.
Would you feel comfortable eating in their house?



no
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amother




Forestgreen


Post  Thu, Jan 11 2018, 9:59 pm
amother wrote:
My friend is a BT she is frum but a bit on the modern side.
She has full time live in help which she leaves alone for hours. The live in also cooks. Supposedly someone opens the fire for her.
She also has several kids who are OTD.
I have been in their house on yom tov and witnessed one of her kids tearing paper towels to wipe something up, they also shut off a flame and then turned it back on.
Would you feel comfortable eating in their house?


You say this is your friend. Do you trust her? Is there some reason you think she'd lie to you about someone turning on the fire for the live-in to cook? I think if she's your friend you should trust her on this one unless you've got a really good reason not to.

Kids being OTD does not mean the house isn't kosher. My MIL has 2 kids and several grandchildren who are not frum. I still eat there. Her house, her rules - the house stays kosher. So again, unless you have some reason to believe these children are purposely treyfing up their parents' kitchen, no problem.

Tearing paper.... they shouldn't but it doesn't mean the food is not kosher.

Turning the flame off and on.... are you absolutely sure of what you saw? That can be of course more problematic but even then it doesn't mean there is a problem with the food. I had a situation where a flame was accidentally turned off and then back on by someone and we quickly went to ask if we could continue using this flame for the remainder of yom tov and told it was okay.

If you want to enjoy going out to eat at people's homes on shabbos and yom tov, it's really best not to look to closely at what they're doing and just trust that they are shomer shabbos and you can eat by them. Because really, when we look we see problems of things going on - modern and not modern. And I bet people may have seen things we've absentmindedly done wrong sometimes too. Stop looking so hard.
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southernbubby









  


Post  Thu, Jan 11 2018, 10:14 pm
amother wrote:
You say this is your friend. Do you trust her? Is there some reason you think she'd lie to you about someone turning on the fire for the live-in to cook? I think if she's your friend you should trust her on this one unless you've got a really good reason not to.

Kids being OTD does not mean the house isn't kosher. My MIL has 2 kids and several grandchildren who are not frum. I still eat there. Her house, her rules - the house stays kosher. So again, unless you have some reason to believe these children are purposely treyfing up their parents' kitchen, no problem.

Tearing paper.... they shouldn't but it doesn't mean the food is not kosher.

Turning the flame off and on.... are you absolutely sure of what you saw? That can be of course more problematic but even then it doesn't mean there is a problem with the food. I had a situation where a flame was accidentally turned off and then back on by someone and we quickly went to ask if we could continue using this flame for the remainder of yom tov and told it was okay.

If you want to enjoy going out to eat at people's homes on shabbos and yom tov, it's really best not to look to closely at what they're doing and just trust that they are shomer shabbos and you can eat by them. Because really, when we look we see problems of things going on - modern and not modern. And I bet people may have seen things we've absentmindedly done wrong sometimes too. Stop looking so hard.


If the live in isn't Jewish and is cooking in the pots, that is a problem. If the live in is cooking when there is no possibility of a frum Jew walking in to inspect, that could also be a problem. Do the OTD kids respect the kashrus in the house?
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camp









  


Post  Thu, Jan 11 2018, 11:17 pm
No
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Boca00









  


Post  Thu, Jan 11 2018, 11:33 pm
Ask your LOR.
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MrsDash









  


Post  Thu, Jan 11 2018, 11:34 pm
Only if she offers me some cookies first.
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shabbatiscoming









  


Post  Fri, Jan 12 2018, 4:11 am
OP, nothing in your OP is a reason not to trust your friend's kashrut.
Lets see, a modern BT, whats wrong with that? A BT is still a frum human being, no?
If someone opoens the fire for the live in, then whats the problem?
Off the derech children, big woop, again, what does that have to do with the kashrut of the HOUSE?
I would definitely eat in their house.
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tante_feige









  


Post  Fri, Jan 12 2018, 9:44 am
Avraham and Yitzchok had kids OTD, and frankly, some of Dovid's sons don't sound so great.
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lfab









  


Post  Fri, Jan 12 2018, 10:34 am
My first instinct is no. But I'd probably ask a Rav what to do since things can get sticky. You don't want to insult your friend in the process.
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amother




Denim


Post  Fri, Jan 12 2018, 12:21 pm
amother wrote:
My friend is a BT she is frum but a bit on the modern side.
She has full time live in help which she leaves alone for hours. The live in also cooks. Supposedly someone opens the fire for her.
She also has several kids who are OTD.
I have been in their house on yom tov and witnessed one of her kids tearing paper towels to wipe something up, they also shut off a flame and then turned it back on.
Would you feel comfortable eating in their house?


If I was certain that no one was home to light the fire for the live in I would not eat in her house and I will explain why.
My Rabbi says that if a non Jew has used a pot or pan to cook with and has lit the fire themselves then the pot or pan is not kosher.
I am just answering for myself but you really have to ask your own Rabbi what to do.
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tichellady









  


Post  Fri, Jan 12 2018, 1:00 pm
I’m not looking for reasons to not eat in my friends houses, so yes, I would eat there based on what you wrote. It sounds like you are just speculating a lot of things and being yentaish.
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BH5745









  


Post  Sat, Jan 13 2018, 4:02 pm
From the responses you've gotten it's obvious more modern people think it's alright to eat in your friend's house, and more machmir people wouldn't think of it.

It seems like your fear is if all these iffy things are going on (a gentile cooking in the kitchen, flames being turned on/off on Yom Tov...), maybe there is more going on that you don't know about, affecting the kashrus.

If that's your fear, you should decide: are your standards are machmir or modern? Use your gut instinct as your guide on whether this kitchen is machmir enough for your kashrus standards.
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imasoftov









  


Post  Sun, Jan 14 2018, 2:50 am
BH5745 wrote:
From the responses you've gotten it's obvious more modern people think it's alright to eat in your friend's house, and more machmir people wouldn't think of it..

Chumras only apply to kashrut and not to how we treat one another
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amother




Lemon


Post  Sun, Jan 14 2018, 5:03 am
I would ask my rav. Your gut instinct is telling you something is off so it doesn't take long to find out. Make that call. A lot of alarms are ringing telling me there are problems.
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