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She didn't *really* pass, but...
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2018, 11:19 am
DVOM wrote:
In my husband's grad program a passing grade is 73.5. If you get a 72, you fail out of the program and have to wait a full year to retake the class with the next incoming class. At the graduate level, these people worked HARD. Talk about effort. My husband studies pretty much non stop, and so do his classmates. In the first semester, about ten percent of the class failed out. There were no make up tests,or extra credit, or points for effort. I'm not saying our schools should function this way, but this is what many college bound kids can expect after leaving the safety of our schools. What can we do to prepare them for this while still applauding their effort and building their confidence?

Interestingly, my perception of my husband's university was that their grading policy was mean, cruel. My husband, who is Israeli, saw it differently. In his culture of origin, there was no such thing as teachers inflating grades because they were compassionate or noticed your effort. Your grade was your grade. If you couldn't hack it, you failed, and that was it. So the school's very strict policy made a lot of sense to him and he didn't waste time getting angry at the system (unlike me. I was furious!)


This is so true. When I was in college and grad school I noticed some students couldn’t keep up. They were used to getting effort points or being automatically passed. I have friends who taught who were complaining that they weren’t allowed to fail the kid who never did homework, barely showed up as they ditched, and didn’t even try on the test as they handed it in without even filling out the “freebie” or “what do you think” type questions where the effort is what mattered. Schools changed the girls grade or forced the teacher to change it.

These girls won’t make it in the real world. They need to show up, work hard and do well. (Proper modification for identified LDs are appropriate. Not what we are talking about here”.
In college the students would go up to the teacher to ask for extra credit, compassion “my friend got married so I couldn’t study” or other bogus excuses.
I don’t want a doctor, nurse, SLP, OT etc forwho was passed because they were able to guilt the teacher for better grades. I want someone who knows the information! Automatically passing the girl isn’t always doing her favors...
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amother
Floralwhite


 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2018, 11:34 am
amother wrote:
This is so true. When I was in college and grad school I noticed some students couldn’t keep up. They were used to getting effort points or being automatically passed. I have friends who taught who were complaining that they weren’t allowed to fail the kid who never did homework, barely showed up as they ditched, and didn’t even try on the test as they handed it in without even filling out the “freebie” or “what do you think” type questions where the effort is what mattered. Schools changed the girls grade or forced the teacher to change it.

These girls won’t make it in the real world. They need to show up, work hard and do well. (Proper modification for identified LDs are appropriate. Not what we are talking about here”.
In college the students would go up to the teacher to ask for extra credit, compassion “my friend got married so I couldn’t study” or other bogus excuses.
I don’t want a doctor, nurse, SLP, OT etc forwho was passed because they were able to guilt the teacher for better grades. I want someone who knows the information! Automatically passing the girl isn’t always doing her favors...


You're right when it comes to college. But like you said your doctor or therapist needs to know that info. When it comes to Chumash/navi/historia student doesnt have the option of not going to school (she does have the option not to go to college) and the info will likely not make her a better wife or mother. I don't think the grading should be done solely on knowledge in high school.
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chayamiriam




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2018, 11:43 am
I am smiling looking at my daughter a struggling barely passing student now a wonderful wife and mother. She is also a very successful business woman! How hard it was seeing her struggeling in high school to earn passing grades. Somehow graduated college has her masters degree she is doing great but always talks about her miserable years of elementary and high school teachers who didn't see the effort it took for her to get that passing grade. This taught her to quickly recognize a learning disability in one of her kids and get her appropriate help. That kid is no longer struggling! But I think a teacher who sees a kid working hard should do everything in her power to make that kid feel good and accomplished and pass her to encourage her to do work harder and be successful!
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 27 2018, 4:36 pm
My vote is for the 65. The P would look different next to the grading of the other subjects.
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thunderstorm




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 27 2018, 4:48 pm
I didn't go through all of the thread. But my personal experience is this. When I was in 9 th grade I was absent many days out of the year due to an injury and due to illness. I needed surgery during one of the weeks of midterms. I really did not know my stuff since I was absent so much but I was very conscientious and decided I'll take all my midterms regardless of my circumstances. I was even still studying while the nurses were wheeling me into the operating room and they had to hand my mother my notes . I really did not pass a few of the tests but every teacher marked me with at least a 65 and each one wrote a personal message that they understood how hard it was for me and they were amazed at my effort and for trying and for them that meant more than anything. Those comments taught me never to give up and to always try no matter what. So thank you to those wonderful teachers. That gesture of giving me the 65 really meant a lot even though I really didn't know my material. It made me not give up on the rest of highschool and I ended up being a great student once I was able to attend school normally.
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1091




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 27 2018, 4:57 pm
amother wrote:
This is so true. When I was in college and grad school I noticed some students couldn’t keep up. They were used to getting effort points or being automatically passed. I have friends who taught who were complaining that they weren’t allowed to fail the kid who never did homework, barely showed up as they ditched, and didn’t even try on the test as they handed it in without even filling out the “freebie” or “what do you think” type questions where the effort is what mattered. Schools changed the girls grade or forced the teacher to change it.

These girls won’t make it in the real world. They need to show up, work hard and do well. (Proper modification for identified LDs are appropriate. Not what we are talking about here”.
In college the students would go up to the teacher to ask for extra credit, compassion “my friend got married so I couldn’t study” or other bogus excuses.
I don’t want a doctor, nurse, SLP, OT etc forwho was passed because they were able to guilt the teacher for better grades. I want someone who knows the information! Automatically passing the girl isn’t always doing her favors...


When I was in college grades were curved depending on how everyone did on the exam so your actual grade may not be your final grade.

Now the CPA exam at that time, 75 was passing and 69 was failing and you couldn’t get a grade in between. If your actual grade fell between the two, your paper was remarked to give or remove points. Fair? I don’t know. It just was the way of the world.
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Sat, Jan 27 2018, 6:38 pm
amother wrote:
I know that for many girls who struggle, this is a daily nisayon that affects them in other areas besides for the academic (emotionally, socially). I am always in awe and feel humbled by those students who keep plodding and trying and studying despite the many disappointments they've had. But again, my question wasn't if I should raise her mark a bit, it was how to do it? Would your daughter be happier with a P or with a 65, if she didn't really pass the term?


I'm sorry, neither would be an okay mark by me, I'd give her a 70. To me it's more about encouraging her to go farther, showing her that her hard work paid off and that she CAN do it. She did terrible the entire semester but managed to get it to 'click' somewhat in the end by the midterm and get an 80? Wonderful, great job! Seeing a low mark like a 65 or a P would (in my opinion) throw back in her face the bad marks from the beginning of the semester when we've moved beyond that already and are now on the road to success. Let's encourage even greater results, not send her a reminder that that hard earned 80 just barely managed to tip the scale of damage done by the quizzes from weeks and months ago.

And to PP who asked how does this prepare the girl for the real world? You bet it does! A vote of confidence, an encouraging sign and a pat on the back go a long way in a teen just starting out in the world, that confidence will take her a lot farther in life than a couple of measly points not really earned the conventional way back in high school.
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amother
Beige


 

Post Sat, Jan 27 2018, 7:03 pm
Just wondering what happen if this repeats itself for the final grade. How much grade inflation is reasonable? I'm assuming this highschool issues diploma recognized by the state where you teach.. aren't there standards your highschool needs to hold to?
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oliveoil




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 27 2018, 7:09 pm
I do not understand half the posts on this thread.

OP - use whatever grading system you use for everyone else, at this point, although a discussion earlier in the semester seems it would have been called for. If someone is consistently failing, or almost failing, they obviously need extra help or don't belong in that class.

To everyone saying to just higher her grade - what universe do ya'all live in??
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oliveoil




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 27 2018, 7:52 pm
On closer thought, I think this is a symptom of the overall American obsession with mediocrity, participation trophies, and the "everyone's a winner" mentality, something I will never understand.
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MitzadSheini




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 27 2018, 8:55 pm
Olive oil - who's better Rashi or Rambam?
Avraham Avinu or Yosef HaTzaddik?
Rebbetzin Heller or Shira Smiles?
Me or you?

So often it's a pointless question.

I get that if there is only one job, only one person can get the job. But seriously not EVERYTHING needs to be a competition. Especially not the little quizzes people do at school.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 28 2018, 3:37 am
shirachadasha wrote:
Can we take a step back?
For kids who are struggling, can the parents, teacher and principal meet as soon as the problems become noticeable? Can this student get a modified exam that's distributed to her discreetly? Can you tell her ahead of the exam that she will pass as long as you can see she put in effort? Can you arrange for tutoring long before the exam? Does she belong in this class?
If you believe it's important for her to understand the material, brainstorm for a way to deliver it to her. If she just needs to make it to graduation, tell her that her reward will be for effort and that's what matters.
Of what benefit is it to let her spin her wheels trying to comprehend the material while only increasing anxiety?

this
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 28 2018, 3:49 am
amother wrote:
You're right when it comes to college. But like you said your doctor or therapist needs to know that info. When it comes to Chumash/navi/historia student doesnt have the option of not going to school (she does have the option not to go to college) and the info will likely not make her a better wife or mother. I don't think the grading should be done solely on knowledge in high school.

If all you want out of school is preparation for being a wife and mother don't ask if schools should grade or not, ask why they teach anything.
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Sun, Jan 28 2018, 4:09 am
Im that student. Give her a 70. It won't kill the system trust me.
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deams




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 28 2018, 9:31 am
I was a student who found school very hard. But I listened in class and studied very hard. I appreciate the mark on the test that showed I passed. I was happy that the teachers took into account that I participated in class and tried very hard for tests. It kept me motivated to keep trying. I learned life skills to not give up. The teachers did not just pass me because they had to. They saw me try. They did not give me a high grade just the number that showed I completed the subject. Not all tests reflect the knowledge a student may have. I found that I knew alot more then was asked on a test or the test was not formatted for my brain. I think if a student is doing all they can in high school they should at least pass. College is different. There you need to know your line of work and if that's what you should be pursuing. I definitely learned more life skills then many other girls who were able to just study 5 min before a test and barely pay attention in school to get 100. I learned to work hard and figure out different things about myself in order to make things work. Even though I got a passing mark it was the comments that ment more to me. Being acknowledge that I am a good listener and putting in effort. I would mark like you have marked all other tests. If you usually put an f for fail or a p for pass then do that. But if you grade by number then grade by number if you need to up it 2 points to make it a pass then do so. Make sure to include a nice a comment.
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SpottedBanana




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 28 2018, 10:18 am
imasoftov wrote:
If all you want out of school is preparation for being a wife and mother don't ask if schools should grade or not, ask why they teach anything.


Um, how to commit to something and put serious effort into it for a long time? Honestly, that's most of what I learned in college that's actually useful for work and I'm a senior in an Ivy League engineering school. The idea that academic institutions (ones that guide you toward getting a BA, BS or PhD, not MD, JD or MBA) care about the same problems that companies care about boggles my mind. It's all about getting used to doing hard work, and for that you can give a 70 to a student who tried and tried. Get verification if you suspect that it's a show.
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amother
Cerulean


 

Post Sun, Jan 28 2018, 2:40 pm
bookworm10 wrote:
Honestly, I believe in a lot more credit for effort. I would give the girl a 70.

I TOTALLY agree. When I was in school I worked so hard and scored poorly. I was not a good test taker even if I understood the material orally. The teachers who gave me an 80 on my report card are still dear to my heart, and they're the ones who motivated me to study even harder!
Show the student you believe in them and they will believe in themselves!!!!
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oliveoil




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 28 2018, 3:00 pm
amother wrote:
I TOTALLY agree. When I was in school I worked so hard and scored poorly. I was not a good test taker even if I understood the material orally. The teachers who gave me an 80 on my report card are still dear to my heart, and they're the ones who motivated me to study even harder!
Show the student you believe in them and they will believe in themselves!!!!


You could also argue that giving a student a grade they know is fake is showing them that you DON'T believe in them.
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Sun, Jan 28 2018, 3:46 pm
oliveoil wrote:
You could also argue that giving a student a grade they know is fake is showing them that you DON'T believe in them.


I agree with this. The purpose of accommodations is to assess what the student is capable of, and then give them specific goals that are within reach. For instance, studying 4 chapters and not all 5.

Arbitrarily deciding on a grade, after the test was taken, is not an accommodation.
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octopus




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 28 2018, 3:53 pm
The question is, if the test you are providing is really testing student knowledge or is it testing speed or some other factor. I find a lot of hs tests don't test actual knowledge or inferential skill, but the speed at which a student can spit back knowledge regardless if they understand it or not.

I don't think it's bad to give a student that puts in the effort a 70. This is not a lazy student. This is a kid that tries. To the posters that are worrying about college already- let's get this student through high school with some semblance of self intact.
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