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What is so amazing and special about the USA?
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 8:59 am
Teomima wrote:
I'm American, but I'm also Israeli. I live and raise my family in Israel, because I truly believe this is the Jewish home. In some ways, life does seem easier in the States, but I think the simplicity of life here balances everything out. As you said, health care, education, it's all so much more affordable here than in the States. Incomes are lower but so is the cost of living (if you live like an Israeli, that is. Far less so if you try living like an American in Israel).

I'm proud to be an American. I love visiting the States and enjoy taking my kids (also American citizens, though born in Israel) there to learn about their American heritage. But when I compare my quality of life to friends who live there, I honestly think I'm happier.


Like.

I don't know where the best place in the world is re quality of life is but I think there are a few principles we can just about all agree on:

1. E"Y is our home. Modern day Israel is not what we have in mind (which is why I wrote "just about" in stead of "all of us." I know we have some members with a certain hashkafic mindset, and I'll leave it at that) when we say E"Y but it is still our home, even now, and nothing can compare.

2. Not all of us are blessed to live in E"Y. We have landed where we did, and not necessarily because we had a choice of several places and were trying to find the perfect one. Regardless, there is a principle of "chein hamakom," people having an affinity for where they live. Not so hard to imagine in any first world country especially, that we might have warm feelings for our current city, hometown, etc.

3. If we have free, uncensored internet access (and if we choose to filter, that's a fully exercised choice) we are likely living in a malchus shel chessed. Sure, there might be infrastructure issues, quality of life isn't perfect but it's pretty blessed. And as long as Moshiach isn't here, and that proverbial hand will be on the keis Kah (see end of Beshalach) I don't know if we're going to find any real undiluted utopia, wherever we live.

So with all that, it's understandable that people can wax eloquent about where they live, wherever that is.
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painting trees




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 10:03 am
As a Canadian, we see the USA as our big, loud, Southern neighbour and we aren't hesitant to be neighbourly.

For example, when planes bound to and from the USA were grounded on 9/11, families across Canada took the passengers into their homes, greeted them like family, fed and housed them.

In Halifax, local residents invited the passengers of 47 planes to stay at their homes.
- https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada.....23825

In Gander Newfoundland, a tiny town, they opened their homes and the school gym to 7000 passengers. The local bus company had been on strike but they temporarily went back to work to accommodate the influx of people.
- https://www.washingtonpost.com.....952af

In the fishing village of Louisport, the mayor pitched in to help drive passengers to various family homes. Local families cooked for them, and even lent them their cars.

According to NAVCanada, we received a total of 238 flights, bound to or from USA. Canadians from Coast to Coast welcomed them into their homes.

"After the initial task of diverting the flights was over, thousands of stranded passengers and flight crews had to be housed and fed until the crisis was over. During the diversion of flights, some airports, including Vancouver International, were inundated with hundreds of telephone calls from members of the public and the corporate community offering their support."
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.....ibbon

Every year on September 11 in Canada, many Canadians gather in heartfelt remembrance of the terrible events that happened in the United States, but we also remember that day, as the day when our "American neighbours" came for a visit.


Data according to NAV CANADA
Airport; Airport Code; # of Planes
Halifax International Airport YHZ 47
Gander International Airport YQX 38
Vancouver International Airport YVR 34
St. John's International Airport YYT 21
Winnipeg International Airport YWG 15
Toronto Pearson International Airport YYZ 14
Calgary International Airport YYC 13
Greater Moncton International Airport YQM 10
Montréal–Mirabel International Airport YMX 10
Stephenville International Airport YJT 8
Canadian Forces Base Goose Bay YYR 7
Montréal-Dorval International Airport YUL 7
Edmonton International Airport YEG 6
Hamilton International Airport YHM 4
Whitehorse International Airport YXY 2
Deer Lake Airport YDF 1
Yellowknife Airport YZF 1
Total 238
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Deep




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 10:28 am
chanchy123 wrote:
America is the only superpower in the world, it is sets the tone in the entire world in terms of economics, finance, politics, academia, culture, pop culture, etc.
Like or not that's reality. Almost every single person in the world can tell you who the President of the United States is (and has an opinion about it), almost everyone has watched at least one Hollywood movie or is aware of their existence, people measure their own currency in reference to the dollar, given a picture of the Statue of Liberty - most people in the world could place it in the US.

I don't know what makes it special - but it is, there is no country in such a position in the world today.

Is life in the US better than life in other countries? That's another question and the answer really depends on your situation, some people are better off - others are not.

I know that many Jewish people in the US do not like the presidency of Donald Trump, but he is quite popular elsewhere in the world. .


I linked a fascinating and very comprehensive rankings index recently released.
https://www.usnews.com/news/be.....index

Out of the 20 top countries in the world,the USA falls at #17. In the 24 different rankings the index covers, the USA comes out on top solely in the power category. As I stated above, the USA has the strongest military and the largest economy.

The rest of your post is based on your limited view of the world as an American. Hollywood is indeed the entertainment center of the world but Bollywood is actually significantly larger if measured by the number of tickets (2.6 billion vs 1.36 billion in the most recent year of available data). Hollywood is still way ahead in terms of box office revenue.

Your point about people recognizing the statue of liberty, Do you know where the Eiffel Tower is? Buckingham Palace? The Great Wall of China? The Taj Mahal? Niagara Falls?

And finally, Donald Trump.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/.....ship/
Among the 37 nations polled, 74% voted "No Confidence" in his administration.

The USA is outstanding in its military prowess and in the strength of its economy. It has also made tremendous contributions to the worlds of science and academia. It falls far short in areas such as quality of life and security (you are 25 times more likely to die in a gun homicide vs any other of the top 20 countries). https://www.cbsnews.com/news/h.....ries/
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WhatFor




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 10:43 am
Raisin wrote:
Advantages of the USA:

More Jewish people, so better choices for frum people as regards shops, restaurants, schools, etc.

Cheap consumer goods and lots of choice. Walmart, amazon, etc.

American culture and tv is definitely influential in the world.

A large population means a larger pool of talent so often the best drs, dancers, musicians, writers, scientists etc might be american - or come to live there from other countries. So if you want the best heart surgeon in the world, he or she might very well be in the USA.


Disadvantages:

Tuition - in other countries with frum populations the government often partially or mostly pays for schools that meet government guidelines.

Healthcare costs. No system is perfect but the US system is a lot less perfect then others.

Crime - seems to a very large number of lawless people, more so than other countries.

Gun violence. Pointless and completely preventable. Or at least easy to greatly reduce.

Trump. Definitely worrying to live in a country where almost 50% of the people thought he was a good option.

Conclusion: For a non Jewish or secular person I would say almost any other western country would be a better place to live. For Jewish people (especially rich Jewish people) the benefits may outweigh the disadvantages.


I agree with most of your post but just wanted to correct you on one thing. About 50% of the US voting population didn't vote. Of those who voted, the majority did not vote for Trump. He won the electoral college but not the popular vote.

That's not to minimize the fact that that's still a concerning number of people who voted for him, but it was not most of the US.
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chanchy123




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 10:54 am
Deep wrote:
I linked a fascinating and very comprehensive rankings index recently released.
https://www.usnews.com/news/be.....index

Out of the 20 top countries in the world,the USA falls at #17. In the 24 different rankings the index covers, the USA comes out on top solely in the power category. As I stated above, the USA has the strongest military and the largest economy.

The rest of your post is based on your limited view of the world as an American. Hollywood is indeed the entertainment center of the world but Bollywood is actually significantly larger if measured by the number of tickets (2.6 billion vs 1.36 billion in the most recent year of available data). Hollywood is still way ahead in terms of box office revenue.

Your point about people recognizing the statue of liberty, Do you know where the Eiffel Tower is? Buckingham Palace? The Great Wall of China? The Taj Mahal? Niagara Falls?

And finally, Donald Trump.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/.....ship/
Among the 37 nations polled, 74% voted "No Confidence" in his administration.

The USA is outstanding in its military prowess and in the strength of its economy. It has also made tremendous contributions to the worlds of science and academia. It falls far short in areas such as quality of life and security (you are 25 times more likely to die in a gun homicide vs any other of the top 20 countries). https://www.cbsnews.com/news/h.....ries/

On the contrary, my post was as a non-American looking from the outside in. Because I am not American I know how America is really perceived and how much influence it actually has.

There is something inherently unique about the US in almost every single measure.
No, the US doesn't raise the best scientists, but they flock out the US to pursue their academic careers.
Some areas in the US have health care that to me living in Israel would be considered third world, infant mortality rates are crazy high in some areas, crime is crippling some neighborhoods have the highest murder rates in the world.
But I don't know that many Americans seeking groundbreaking medical treatment in other countries, while people all over the world flock to seek care in the US.
How many Americans emigrate to other countries to seek a better life? Not very many. Do I even have to ask the opposite about people wanting to immigrate into the US.

comparing Bollywood and Hollywood is ridiculous. Yes, Bollywood is a bigger industry than Hollywood. But how many people outside of India have seen a Bollywood films in the past year, in the past decade? How many could name one Bollywood film? One Bollywood star? could you?
If I stopped a random person in the street in some random place in the world, what do you think the answer would be? The Eiffel Tower is iconic probably as much as the Statue of Liberty, not so sure how universal the rest are worldwide.
Trump is really not very popular in the US, (neither werevObama or W. Bush), but out there in the world many people really appreciate him.
He has done amazing things for Israel in this past year and the vast majority of Israelis are grateful and can look beyond some of the indecent behavior.
A lot of American talk is like the spoiled rich kids complaining that no one understands how bad they really have it.
I'm not saying the quality of everything American is so great, I would certainly never want to live there - I am saying there is something pretty remarkable about it that people who live there should appreciate.
As for daily living it really depends on your circumstances. I'm sure there are many people living great easy lives in Rwanda and many people struggling in the US, but bottom line more people want to live in the US than Rwanda, and the US influences Rwanda now than our does the US.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 11:00 am
Agree so much with Raisin. If you're Jewish and rich, go to America.
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Deep




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 11:00 am
chanchy123 wrote:
On the contrary, my post was as a non-American looking from the outside in. Because I am not American I know how America is really perceived and how much influence it actually has.

There is something inherently unique about the US in almost every single measure.
No, the US doesn't raise the best scientists, but they flock out the US to pursue their academic careers.
Some areas in the US have health care that to me living in Israel would be considered third world, infant mortality rates are crazy high in some areas, crime is crippling some neighborhoods have the highest murder rates in the world.
But I don't know that many Americans seeking groundbreaking medical treatment in other countries, while people all over the world flock to seek care in the US.
How many Americans emigrate to other countries to seek a better life? Not very many. Do I even have to ask the opposite about people wanting to immigrate into the US.

comparing Bollywood and Hollywood is ridiculous. Yes, Bollywood is a bigger industry than Hollywood. But how many people outside of India have seen a Bollywood films in the past year, in the past decade? How many could name one Bollywood film? One Bollywood star? could you?
If I stopped a random person in the street in some random place in the world, what do you think the answer would be? The Eiffel Tower is iconic probably as much as the Statue of Liberty, not so sure how universal the rest are worldwide.
Trump is really not very popular in the US, (neither werevObama or W. Bush), but out there in the world many people really appreciate him.
He has done amazing things for Israel in this past year and the vast majority of Israelis are grateful and can look beyond some of the indecent behavior.
A lot of American talk is like the spoiled rich kids complaining that no one understands how bad they really have it.
I'm not saying the quality of everything American is so great, I would certainly never want to live there - I am saying there is something pretty remarkable about it that people who live there should appreciate.
As for daily living it really depends on your circumstances. I'm sure there are many people living great easy lives in Rwanda and many people struggling in the US, but bottom line more people want to live in the US than Rwanda, and the US influences Rwanda now than our does the US.


You clearly haven't read any of the links that I posted. Statistics don't lie. And although I hold American citizenship, I am a born and bred Canadian. In my post I clearly listed what makes the USA special and in what areas it needs to improve. The latter does not detract from the former.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 11:08 am
painting trees wrote:
As a Canadian, we see the USA as our big, loud, Southern neighbour and we aren't hesitant to be neighbourly.


In Detroit, people see the USA (via Windsor) as their lovely, gracious neighbors to the south, eh.
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Deep




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 11:11 am
PinkFridge wrote:
In Detroit, people see the USA (via Windsor) as their lovely, gracious neighbors to the south, eh.


We love our rambunctious neighbours! The friendship our 2 nations share is incredible.
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chanchy123




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 11:14 am
WhatFor wrote:
I agree with most of your post but just wanted to correct you on one thing. About 50% of the US voting population didn't vote. Of those who voted, the majority did not vote for Trump. He won the electoral college but not the popular vote.

That's not to minimize the fact that that's still a concerning number of people who voted for him, but it was not most of the US.

You must not understand how the US system works. In the US the (not so brilliant system) makes voting for a red candidate in a blue state or county a waste of time. No reason for a Trump supporter to leave the house in California unless she feels very strongly on local issues that may or may not be on the ballot in a national election day.

Believe me, I am so much more concerned by the Bernie supporters our there and the progressive liberal types that can't deal with the majority of Americans having different opinions than they do and losing an election. I shudder to think what would have happened if Hillary were elected and these coocoo radicals were not exposed for what they are.
The US really dodged a bullet there, which essentially means we all did.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 11:15 am
I think where the US really shines is personal freedom and full separation of church and state. No other country has as much personal freedom. Sometimes that's good, sometimes that has drawbacks. But it is a huge factor for me living in the US. One of the big reasons I won't move to Israel is the government involvement in religion.
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chanchy123




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 11:16 am
Ruchel wrote:
Agree so much with Raisin. If you're Jewish and rich, go to America.


Really does this need saying?
If you're Jewish there is only one place out there for you and being wealthy will make immigration all that easier.

And it is not the US.
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chanchy123




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 11:20 am
Deep wrote:
You clearly haven't read any of the links that I posted. Statistics don't lie. And although I hold American citizenship, I am a born and bred Canadian. In my post I clearly listed what makes the USA special and in what areas it needs to improve. The latter does not detract from the former.



You're right. I didn't. It's making dinner time in my time zone. I hope to get it later tonight after kids are sleeping.
Shakshuka here we come (but that's for the thread about how Israel is so great Smile).
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WhatFor




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 11:22 am
chanchy123 wrote:
You must not understand how the US system works. In the US the (not so brilliant system) makes voting for a red candidate in a blue state or county a waste of time. No reason for a Trump supporter to leave the house in California unless she feels very strongly on local issues that may or may not be on the ballot in a national election day.

Believe me, I am so much more concerned by the Bernie supporters our there and the progressive liberal types that can't deal with the majority of Americans having different opinions than they do and losing an election. I shudder to think what would have happened if Hillary were elected and these coocoo radicals were not exposed for what they are.
The US really dodged a bullet there, which essentially means we all did.


You must not understand my post and why I posted what I posted. How is my post indicative of me not understanding how the US voting system works?

Raisin expressed concern that the majority of USCs voted for Trump. I explained that that's not, in fact, the case.

What about that indicates a lack of understanding of the US voting system?
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Deep




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 11:22 am
chanchy123 wrote:
You're right. I didn't. It's making dinner time in my time zone. I hope to get it later tonight after kids are sleeping.
Shakshuka here we come (but that's for the thread about how Israel is so great Smile).


I love me some shakshuka. And some shawarma, falafel or poutine Very Happy .
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turca




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 11:24 am
Raisin wrote:
Advantages of the USA:

More Jewish people, so better choices for frum people as regards shops, restaurants, schools, etc.

Cheap consumer goods and lots of choice. Walmart, amazon, etc.

American culture and tv is definitely influential in the world.

A large population means a larger pool of talent so often the best drs, dancers, musicians, writers, scientists etc might be american - or come to live there from other countries. So if you want the best heart surgeon in the world, he or she might very well be in the USA.


Disadvantages:

Tuition - in other countries with frum populations the government often partially or mostly pays for schools that meet government guidelines.

Healthcare costs. No system is perfect but the US system is a lot less perfect then others.

Crime - seems to a very large number of lawless people, more so than other countries.

Gun violence. Pointless and completely preventable. Or at least easy to greatly reduce.

Trump. Definitely worrying to live in a country where almost 50% of the people thought he was a good option.

Conclusion: For a non Jewish or secular person I would say almost any other western country would be a better place to live. For Jewish people (especially rich Jewish people) the benefits may outweigh the disadvantages.

Hillary was a better option?
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 11:25 am
America grew from 13 small New England colonies to one of the largest countries in the world. Now that growth happened because as people headed South and then West, there was no government that would determine anything about the way those communities grew and they were free to become self-governing states that eventually became part of the Union. Older European countries, and Israel, did not have unlimited ability to expand and build and self-govern.

In Israel, for example, probably the average household lives in a building rather than in a single family home on it's own lot with it's own garden. Living together in a building with other families can make people feel more a part of something and less isolated. For example, I live on a block with 6 houses but I am really only close friends with one family on the block and the rest of them I have no knowledge of even their names in some cases. If they needed help, I wouldn't have a clue and even though they don't live far away, they might as well live far away because I have no relationship with them.

In Israel, by contrast, my grandchildren go to Shabbos groups in their building and neighbors do have some connection to one another. The children all play on municipal playgrounds rather than in their own backyard with their own swing set. Many of the neighborhood business are small mom and pop stores rather than big chains such as Ikea, which currently has more stores in Israel than in Michigan, due to the type of furniture that people in smaller homes and apartments usually need.

And there is some camaraderie in knowing that practically everyone in the neighborhood is Jewish and even if there are vast differences in the way that plays out, there is an underlying feeling that Jews are all one people and therefore must all care about one another as brothers. It appears that most non-Jews in Israel have neighborhoods made up of mostly whatever religion that they are such as Druze (although I would imagine that in more secular neighborhoods, there may be more mixing of religious and ethnic groups).

America's diversity makes a sense of connection and unity more difficult and the haves and have nots of American society live far apart from one another and are often separated both geographically as well as socially and economically. The fact that African Americans spent approximately 2 and a half centuries as slaves has not made their place in American society culturally equal to the "established" white society. You now see arguments about whether a liberal who lives in a gated community is nothing but a bigoted hypocrite or is basically ignorant of his own white privilege which is something that is actually provable that it exists.
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yo'ma




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 11:57 am
For me it's great because I consider it my home and I don't even live there.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 1:36 pm
This is a no-win conversation for Americans, and I strongly recommend we bow out. If we attempt to answer the question with even the most tepid endorsement of our country, we are accused of being "one of those rah-rah Americans," as one former poster condescendingly called me when I predicted in 2008 that, in fact, the world economy wouldn't collapse into chaos as a result of the subprime meltdown.

But if we pull long faces and drone on about America's shortcomings, we are simply participating in orgy of America-bashing that seems to animate so much of the world -- often right before they ask us how best to get green cards.

However, I think many Americans are tired of what seems to us like a double-standard. It often seems as if the U.S. is criticized for problems that, while legitimate, are hardly unique and which are often present in the countries of those doing the criticizing, as well.

David Sedaris wrote about living in France in 2008. Sedaris is highly, highly critical of the U.S. (not a "rah-rah American" as the former poster might say), but he found himself repeatedly offended by friends and neighbors who commented that the U.S. was "too racist" to elect a black President -- all while historic discrimination and racism against North African immigrants had spawned a slew of social problems in their own country.

Ultimately, countries are like restaurants. If you like pizza, you're going to like restaurants that do a good job making pizza. If you hate pizza, you're going to find those restaurants lacking.

If sunny weather is hugely important to you, Great Britain is probably not going to rank high on your list, but you might find Panama to be wonderful. If complete economic freedom is your thing, you'll be happier in Singapore or Hong Kong. If economic security is more important, you'll like living in Sweden.

If you place a high value on individualism and self-determination, the U.S. is one of the best places in the world. If that's not what floats your boat, you are not going to like the U.S. very much.

As for the inviolability of statistics, it was Mark Twain who popularized the quote that is usually attributed to Benjamin Disraeli: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 31 2018, 1:44 pm
Fox, we do have problems here related to the slave past that other countries don't have. We also don't have a national religion or country of origin like many other countries do have. We are all a bunch of individuals rather than a collective group so as a bunch of individuals, we tend to look out for ourselves rather than care about the collective.
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