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Seconds at a Simcha (s/o Sweets Table)
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 1:06 pm
octopus wrote:
I do know of people who took extra plates and the baal hasimcha was charged for it because it went over the original count. Yes, the baal hasimcha is charged for 150 people. Yes, a smart caterer makes extras but if more people show up to simcha than the regular headcount, they are charged for it. Whether they count by chairs or plates depends on caterer.


This happens a lot. Unexpected guests show up at weddings and the staff serves them. My litvish friend was dumbfounded when she was hit with 40 extra plates at her daughter's chassanah. Her daughter married into a hassidish family.

At the weddings I go to, there are no assigned tables and always room for one more.
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naomi2




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 1:06 pm
octopus wrote:
What do you mean you have never heard of a caterer charging if a person took seconds? Have you made simchas before? The baal hasimcha is not required to cater to unique appetites. The baal hasimcha is providing dinner for the average person. What is this talk about fair and unfair? That is not normal talk! Take a step back and think, please.

I think this post is overly harsh and out of line
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Rachel Shira




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 1:08 pm
I don't think he did anything wrong by accepting the second portion. He was offered it, he didn't ask (that would be wrong, I agree). I think most people are not thinking about the cost of the food at a simcha as they are eating it, and the reason a lot of people on this thread are thinking about it through that lens is because the original question was phrased that way, and because of the previous thread about taking dessert home. Maybe now that it's on your mind, he can decline it in the future, but I really don't think he did anything so bad.
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octopus




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 1:16 pm
naomi2 wrote:
I think this post is overly harsh and out of line


Too bad. I had no problem on the other thread when a guest took a cookie or two to go. But many people know that the baal hasimcha gets charged by the plate. Have you ever been there to witness the anguish of the hosts when they are whacked with an expense that they thought was accounted for and they can't afford it. The memory of what happened to my relatives is seared into my brain. And all because of some thoughtless people... I'm all for being a gracious hostess, but it is not the hostess's responsibility to take into account that someone may want doubles.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 1:26 pm
octopus wrote:
Too bad. I had no problem on the other thread when a guest took a cookie or two to go. But many people know that the baal hasimcha gets charged by the plate. Have you ever been there to witness the anguish of the hosts when they are whacked with an expense that they thought was accounted for and they can't afford it. The memory of what happened to my relatives is seared into my brain. And all because of some thoughtless people... I'm all for being a gracious hostess, but it is not the hostess's responsibility to take into account that someone may want doubles.


But octopus, the moral of this and every catering story is that the baal simcha should clarify these issues before the event and have the waitstaff tell those who want seconds or those who want a plate to take home for someone who didn't make it, that there are no main course foods left but they can have some extra rice. It is the failure of caterers to make this clear and the failure of event planners to make this clear and the failure of those hiring these professionals to ask these pertinent questions. We can't foresee all possibilities but it is common that guests will try to take advantage and if the caterer doesn't bring this up then the baal simcha must ask this question about how to avoid big surprises at the end of the event. We must assume that any guests who have not made a major simcha are ignorant when they ask for seconds.
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MiracleMama




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 1:28 pm
amother wrote:
Excuse me? Where I live for a wedding or bar mitzvah the host makes a contract with the caterer for x number of guests... finalizes the number a week before the simcha. That locks in the price for food. Done. If 10 don't show - too bad.

The caterer, if he knows what a good reputation is, will make a few extra portions.


This has been my experience as well and it's also my experience that there are a few who RSVP'd but didn't show which means that there are extra portions. While I don't think it's okay to ask for it, I think it's okay to accept if offered. That food is going to be pitched otherwise anyhow and it's paid for, so why not?
Of course if you happen to live somewhere where the host is charged by # of dirty plates (never heard this before - curious where this is done) then control yourself and wait for dessert).
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 1:31 pm
octopus wrote:
Excuse you! Do you think that every single caterer has the same way to calculate charges?!


No - and I clearly stated that in my post. The "excuse me" was with reference to your comment "Have you made simchas before?"
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octopus




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 1:32 pm
But I do think there is something to being a gracious guest. I don't believe it is common practice for guests to take advantage. I think it is unusual. I would like to think that most people have regular manners. I don't think it's fair to put it all on the caterers. People should take responsibility for themselves. Yes, there are people who are naive, and never made their own simchas, and are clueless. okay. But there are also people who should know better. And then their are schnorrish people. And they don't think about others, just themselves.
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giselle




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 1:33 pm
amother wrote:
It's gluttonous. I'm sure he's a wonderful guy and all but the food served at a simcha is appropriately portioned. Eating more is inappropriate. Not because of money. Like I said it's just overeating. But I doubt a bal simcha cares if he ate extra. But then again all the moms here seem to think those sweet mamas bringing a cookie home is a problem and I would be happy to share...my mom never took and I never take from a simcha but I would be happy if others took from mine. Then again ppl spend lots more on miniatures than old fashion rugelach so whom I to judge. I'm going off topic here...


Pretty harmless question. Your reaction is a bit over the top.
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octopus




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 1:36 pm
MiracleMama wrote:
This has been my experience as well and it's also my experience that there are a few who RSVP'd but didn't show which means that there are extra portions. While I don't think it's okay to ask for it, I think it's okay to accept if offered. That food is going to be pitched otherwise anyhow and it's paid for, so why not?
Of course if you happen to live somewhere where the host is charged by # of dirty plates (never heard this before - curious where this is done) then control yourself and wait for dessert).


Not necessarily. There will always be people who show up and stay for the meal, that did not put down that they were staying for the meal. Of course that is wrong. But the baal hasimcha can hope that the shows and no-shows balance out. It would never occur to me to put second servings into that cheshbon.
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octopus




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 1:39 pm
I just can't get over people making cheshbonos on the baal hasimcha;s expense. That is not your cheshbon to make whether that is an extra or not!
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penguin




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 1:42 pm
I always expect 10% of the people who said they're coming to end up cancelling. Even those who say, "no, it's all close family, nobody will cancel" - what, you never heard of close family having their kids come down with chicken pox at the last minute?

To the OP, you can do what I do. I call the caterer in advance to find out if there will be gluten free food. Some have been extremely accommodating, while one said, "No, NOTHING is gluten free." (I ended up taking salmon and sliced turkey at the reception, and pickles and cole slaw at the meal.)

So if your DH know he won't be able to eat lunch or fill up a bit at the reception, call ahead for each different caterer* and ask the catering office if the baalei simcha will be charged if the waiter brings your DH seconds. Then you'll know!

(*Although you can't be sure that the caterer has the same deal for every simcha. There might be takana packages etc so you would probably also ask if the answer you get will be true for every simcha they make or different packages have different policies.)
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 1:43 pm
octopus wrote:
I just can't get over people making cheshbonos on the baal hasimcha;s expense. That is not your cheshbon to make whether that is an extra or not!


"we have extra in the kitchen" very much sound like "we have food that's been paid for".

I'm really wondering if 'we count the plates' method of charging a host is standard most places - for a sit down simcha. This really does seem community specific.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 1:45 pm
octopus wrote:
But I do think there is something to being a gracious guest. I don't believe it is common practice for guests to take advantage. I think it is unusual. I would like to think that most people have regular manners. I don't think it's fair to put it all on the caterers. People should take responsibility for themselves. Yes, there are people who are naive, and never made their own simchas, and are clueless. okay. But there are also people who should know better. And then their are schnorrish people. And they don't think about others, just themselves.


On the one hand, if I go to a restaurant and order a meal and want something extra, it will cost more. I should expect an additional charge for the additional food.

Now if I go to a Pesach resort, and pay per head, regardless of what quantity I eat, then I assume that it is OK to have seconds because I was not paying per item but per person, regardless of how much I consume.

Now the guest doesn't know which type of arrangement the host has with the caterer and the caterer doesn't always spell it out because they want people to be loose with money at smachot. They don't want to be known as the caterer who runs out of chicken when a hungry guest wants another piece so they will not want to encourage the host to be stingy or frugal.

The host, on the other hand, may not realize that he will be charged extra for this portion of chicken and if he is a smart host, he will get the caterer to spell out just what these charges are and how to avoid overcharges. The caterer may have to tell the guests that the host doesn't want more food served or taken home as carry out if they don't want to make it look like they ran out of food.
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 2:08 pm
amother wrote:
"we have extra in the kitchen" very much sound like "we have food that's been paid for".

I'm really wondering if 'we count the plates' method of charging a host is standard most places - for a sit down simcha. This really does some community specific.


I'm not sure how counting plates, or napkins, would work.

I mean, if I spill something, should I not use my napkin, or ask for an extra napkin to mop up the spill lest the host be charged a couple of hundred for it? Should I run to the lavatory for TP instead?

And plates. Should I shoo the staff away if they try to take my plate at the smorgasbord, lest there be additional charges?
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octopus




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 2:32 pm
amother wrote:
I'm not sure how counting plates, or napkins, would work.

I mean, if I spill something, should I not use my napkin, or ask for an extra napkin to mop up the spill lest the host be charged a couple of hundred for it? Should I run to the lavatory for TP instead?

And plates. Should I shoo the staff away if they try to take my plate at the smorgasbord, lest there be additional charges?


smorgasbord is not counted by plates. If they run out,they run out. It is not like the main meal.
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octopus




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 2:38 pm
How do you think the caterer is able to account for people going over their minimum?
They are not sitting in the back counting every single plate as they wash it. Let's say they make 150 plates because that's what the host paid for. The caterer is not going to make an exact 150 because it will make him look bad if he runs out, so he will make extra. But once you go into the extra, you start getting billed per plate. The caterer is out to make money. He probably is overjoyed when people go over.
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octopus




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 2:40 pm
I've never heard of a caterer counting napkins.
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octopus




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 2:44 pm
amother wrote:
Excuse me? Where I live for a wedding or bar mitzvah the host makes a contract with the caterer for x number of guests... finalizes the number a week before the simcha. That locks in the price for food. Done. If 10 don't show - too bad.

The caterer, if he knows what a good reputation is, will make a few extra portions.


And I'm saying that you pay if you end up dipping into the extra portions because that's how they figure out if you went over on the headcount in the contract you sign.
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Fri, Feb 02 2018, 2:49 pm
octopus wrote:
And I'm saying that you pay if you end up dipping into the extra portions.


Where I live price is per person, not per plate (in all instances I've dealt with) Where you live, its per plate not per person.

In the price per plate model - caterer who tells his waitstaff to walk around offering more food - is certainly engaging in some questionable business practices.
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