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shoshanim999









  


Post  Sun, Feb 11 2018, 3:55 pm
mandksima wrote:
I trust Hashem way more than I ever could a parent. A parent can act with unbridled anger and ego. They can be selfish and vengeful. We are assured everything Hashem does is good. When you accept how little, we as humans, can see the outward physical manifestations of things in our short sighted way, we are totally trusting Hashem and his kindness and fairness to make our lives work out exactly how we need it to. We are like a baby in a mother's arms who will die if not fed and taken care of. We make our little decisions but we are totally dependent on Hashem for our every breath. Since Hashem is partly in us and partly in the air we breathe, we are actually breathing Him in every moment. Without that constant chessed from Hashem, we would all cease to exist.

This life we know is only one of many lives we have lived. Each reincarnation fixes previous mistakes and reaps rewards from previous good deeds. The Baal Shem Tov would often explain how things worked in a current life to make things straight from a previous one. I read a story last week where the Maggid of Mezdritch asked the Baal Shem Tov to explain how monetary laws are related to reincarnation so he had him witness the following story - there was a man riding a horse who stopped at a tree to rest and left his wallet behind as he left. Another man comes by, sees the wallet, takes it and leaves. A next character comes by -a poor and exhausted man and he lays down to rest. The first rider returns and demands the wallet from the sleeping innocent man. He doesn't know anything about it but the rider beats him up. The Baal Shem Tov explains what really happened here. In a previous life the rider owed the second man a certain sum but refused to pay so he was paid back now. The "innocent" man was the rabbi who the two first men went to in order to work out their monetary dispute but the rabbi didn't investigate well enough and dismissed the case. Since he was negligent, he was punished in this life. Now everything was evened out middah kneged middah. We are not able to look at the world and understand how everything that happens, even to seemingly innocent people, is justified but we trust Hashem that it is and we know that someday, when our judgement day comes, we will be shown how everything that happened in our life was just and good and that Hashem only performed kindness for us. Our souls need to strive for perfection, Hashem gives us the opportunity to do it in each life we are in. It is our choice to attempt to finish our soul's rectification in one life or keep coming back. The more trust we have in Hashem, the quicker we will achieve our goal. It doesn't help anyone to not trust Hashem. Even our suffering has its purpose and we would realize how we need it when everything becomes clear in the end. That's why tzaddikim accept their pain and suffering with the same joy as their joyful moments, because they know and accept it all as love and chessed from Hashem in perfecting their soul so they can get to Hashem's throne sooner and revel in the ultimate pleasure of being a perfect soul near Him.

Tragedy is a difficult challenge but if you have had any, be assured that Hashem has sent it as a kindness in some way that you can't understand yet. I always hear of stories from people who have gone through terrible tragedies (one comes to mind where a man lost 2 limbs) and they say after time has gone by that if they had the chance to choose their fate, they would not wish to have the tragedy never happen because it was only because of this tragedy that they were able to achieve life altering goals and they would rather a life with pain and hardship where they were able to rise above it than a easier, happier life where they would not have had the push to make themselves work as hard as they did. Only trust and positivity can get a person to see over their difficulties and still strive for the best outcome. If you are poor in this life, your soul picked it out because he knew he couldn't achieve the proper work to rectify himself if he had an easy rich life. Your soul picks your parents as well so for all those who suffered difficulties with their parents, this was also the choice chosen by your soul who knows what your role is in this current life and what it needed to reach perfection.

I suppose everybody doesn't believe in reincarnation but I don't see how they can understand a thing in this world without this basic idea. It just makes everything make sense with our limited understanding and gives us the strength to trudge on. We have lots of stories from our tzaddikim to help us realize how short this life is and how if we focus on what our soul needs, instead of what gives us pleasure in this life, we will be able to succeed.



I agree with much of what you said, which is in a sense the problem. Ask people if the have emunah, and if they trust in hashem, and they would say, of course. It's kefirah to say otherwise! However, as you just described, to honestly and genuinely trust in hashem fully, we must also completely internalize the idea that we are gilgulim, and bad things that are happening in this life are "correcting things" from previous lives many generations ago. If you don't accept this idea 10000000% then it is impossible to say that you really trust in hashem because at face value, what we see going on in the world, in terms of the complete randomness of life challenges that befalls good and bad people equally, it is impossible to make any sense of it and have genuine trust. How many of us honestly don't want what we perceive as "good" in our lives? How many of us honestly wake up in the morning and honestly think that whatever happens, it's to correct something that happened to our neshama 1000 years ago? My guess is almost nobody.

On yom Kippur we ask hashem for specific brochos, such as life, health, parnassah, and shiduchim. Is there anyone who during neilah is thinking how I have such faith in hashem that all he does is good, that even if I have a miserable year it's ok, because I know it's a tikun for a previous life. Nobody honestly thinks that way. We just benched rosh chodesh yesterday. Again, we asked hashem for all the brochos that we as humans see as good. We didn't mention gilgulim and previous lives because nobody is on that madraga that they really accept it 100%. That's why I always call baloney when woman here say that hashem is like our "father". Yes, human fathers have ego's and tempers, but a human father would never let the tragedies that we see happening, befall his own family. Hashem, in his infinite wisdom, allows this to happen. Somehow, this is for our good. Unless you are on a madraiga to actually accept this 100% b'ahava, I don't see how anyone can claim to trust in hashem.
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momnaturally









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 1:04 am
shoshanim999 wrote:
I agree with much of what you said, which is in a sense the problem. Ask people if the have emunah, and if they trust in hashem, and they would say, of course. It's kefirah to say otherwise! However, as you just described, to honestly and genuinely trust in hashem fully, we must also completely internalize the idea that we are gilgulim, and bad things that are happening in this life are "correcting things" from previous lives many generations ago. If you don't accept this idea 10000000% then it is impossible to say that you really trust in hashem because at face value, what we see going on in the world, in terms of the complete randomness of life challenges that befalls good and bad people equally, it is impossible to make any sense of it and have genuine trust. How many of us honestly don't want what we perceive as "good" in our lives? How many of us honestly wake up in the morning and honestly think that whatever happens, it's to correct something that happened to our neshama 1000 years ago? My guess is almost nobody.

On yom Kippur we ask hashem for specific brochos, such as life, health, parnassah, and shiduchim. Is there anyone who during neilah is thinking how I have such faith in hashem that all he does is good, that even if I have a miserable year it's ok, because I know it's a tikun for a previous life. Nobody honestly thinks that way. We just benched rosh chodesh yesterday. Again, we asked hashem for all the brochos that we as humans see as good. We didn't mention gilgulim and previous lives because nobody is on that madraga that they really accept it 100%. That's why I always call baloney when woman here say that hashem is like our "father". Yes, human fathers have ego's and tempers, but a human father would never let the tragedies that we see happening, befall his own family. Hashem, in his infinite wisdom, allows this to happen. Somehow, this is for our good. Unless you are on a madraiga to actually accept this 100% b'ahava, I don't see how anyone can claim to trust in hashem.


You bring up very good points and I can see you thought a lot about this and it really bothers you. I also had a lot of these types of questions. I asked knowledgeable people and dh asked people for me. I can share with you some things I learned which may help you as well.
1. Bitachon is not all or nothing. It is actually just like all other areas of serving hashem and especially similar to middos. Let's use an example of something else like fear of hashem. Some people have no fear whatsoever of hashem. Some people tremble from Hashem. Most of us are neither. We have some fear of Hashem some of us more some of us have less. If we do an aveira because we werent scared enough does that mean we have no yiras shamayim ? Of course not. We have some we just need to work on increasing the level of our fear of hashem. We can do that by thinking about how this world is not forever...there is a judgement and a judge...we can daven and ask for more yiras shamayim. Basically it's something we are supposed to work on increasing our level of yiras shamayim.
Bitachon is the same exact thing.
Most of us know Hashem is in charge and can help us but we don't feel it strongly to the point that it's a reality to us. One of the mitzvos in the Torah is to work on increasing our bitachon. Hashem wants us to work on a relationship with him. He wants us to come to him with all our needs. He wants us to rely on him not our boss not on the government not on our money not on the locks on our door. Obviously this doesn't just happen by itself and almost everyone does not totally rely on hashem and nothing else.
However that is what we work on. When we have a good day, made money, made a good supper...instead of taking credit for it or giving credit to our cookbook, boss whoever instead give credit to hashem since if it didn't happen in this manner he would have made the same results for us in a different manner.
By constantly telling our minds that everything is from hashem, naturally when we want something we will look to hashem to give it to us not a different source.
This is called working on bitachon and most of us have some bitachon. The people who have more bitachon than us and can feel it is because they spent years talking to themselves this way.
The more time we spend talking to ourselves that way, eventually we start to feel it too.
Big tzaddikim feel it tremendously just like they tremble in fear of hashem. We can work to get there and the more we work on it the more we will feel it.
2. Even with all stated above and we recognize hashem is the only source to receive anything and that's where we turn to get what we need and we get a mitzvah of bitachon for doing this there is still a problem like you said. In essence the only place to go is to ask Hashem but that is it ! All we can do is ask ? That is not relying that is totally up in the air ? What if he says no ?
The answer is that there is no such thing as no. We will always get something for sure if we are coming to hashem but depending on how much we rely on him can effect what we get. Technically if we really relied on him 100% we would get everything we were relying on him for. However realistically we are not there and probably will never reach that point. However the more we rely on him the more responsive he will be to us. Many times that additional responsiveness (called hashgacha pratis) is enough to give us what we want . Sometimes it is not. But that is the relationship we have a mitzvah to build of reliance.
Really we have relationships with people like that too. When you put yourself out for someone in a way that requires a lot that builds trust with them and they are able to rely on you more as a friend. The more times and the more often you are there for them the more they know they can count on you.
The same thing the other way around. If your baby cries you know that there is no one else to help them except you. When they cry the only one they are crying for is you and you know that and therefore feel a massive responsibility to help them. If an older child or a neighbors child was crying they may seek your help but they may be able to handle things themselves or their parents can help them. So for them you won't feel the same responsibility to help them. If it is not a big deal you may help them but you will not likely turn over the whole world to help them. This is the same with us and Hashem.

I hope this helps clarify somethings for you.
It definitely helped me.
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amother




Silver


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 7:27 am
mandksima wrote:
I trust Hashem way more than I ever could a parent. A parent can act with unbridled anger and ego. They can be selfish and vengeful. We are assured everything Hashem does is good. When you accept how little, we as humans, can see the outward physical manifestations of things in our short sighted way, we are totally trusting Hashem and his kindness and fairness to make our lives work out exactly how we need it to. We are like a baby in a mother's arms who will die if not fed and taken care of. We make our little decisions but we are totally dependent on Hashem for our every breath. Since Hashem is partly in us and partly in the air we breathe, we are actually breathing Him in every moment. Without that constant chessed from Hashem, we would all cease to exist.

This life we know is only one of many lives we have lived. Each reincarnation fixes previous mistakes and reaps rewards from previous good deeds. The Baal Shem Tov would often explain how things worked in a current life to make things straight from a previous one. I read a story last week where the Maggid of Mezdritch asked the Baal Shem Tov to explain how monetary laws are related to reincarnation so he had him witness the following story - there was a man riding a horse who stopped at a tree to rest and left his wallet behind as he left. Another man comes by, sees the wallet, takes it and leaves. A next character comes by -a poor and exhausted man and he lays down to rest. The first rider returns and demands the wallet from the sleeping innocent man. He doesn't know anything about it but the rider beats him up. The Baal Shem Tov explains what really happened here. In a previous life the rider owed the second man a certain sum but refused to pay so he was paid back now. The "innocent" man was the rabbi who the two first men went to in order to work out their monetary dispute but the rabbi didn't investigate well enough and dismissed the case. Since he was negligent, he was punished in this life. Now everything was evened out middah kneged middah. We are not able to look at the world and understand how everything that happens, even to seemingly innocent people, is justified but we trust Hashem that it is and we know that someday, when our judgement day comes, we will be shown how everything that happened in our life was just and good and that Hashem only performed kindness for us. Our souls need to strive for perfection, Hashem gives us the opportunity to do it in each life we are in. It is our choice to attempt to finish our soul's rectification in one life or keep coming back. The more trust we have in Hashem, the quicker we will achieve our goal. It doesn't help anyone to not trust Hashem. Even our suffering has its purpose and we would realize how we need it when everything becomes clear in the end. That's why tzaddikim accept their pain and suffering with the same joy as their joyful moments, because they know and accept it all as love and chessed from Hashem in perfecting their soul so they can get to Hashem's throne sooner and revel in the ultimate pleasure of being a perfect soul near Him.

Tragedy is a difficult challenge but if you have had any, be assured that Hashem has sent it as a kindness in some way that you can't understand yet.

I suppose everybody doesn't believe in reincarnation but I don't see how they can understand a thing in this world without this basic idea. It just makes everything make sense with our limited understanding and gives us the strength to trudge on. We have lots of stories from our tzaddikim to help us realize how short this life is and how if we focus on what our soul needs, instead of what gives us pleasure in this life, we will be able to succeed.


"I suppose everyone doesnt believe in reincarnation but I dont see how anyone can understand a thing without this basic idea"

This is a great point but then why is it that in most shiurim this idea is not brought up. Also in all my frum schooling this idea was brought up maybe twice but never to tie in with bitachon.

Is our understanding of bitachon...tied to this? Most shiurim dont tie it together. And what does it mean "our soul picked for us...." ? I tjought we have bechira. Is nt hashem in charge not our soul??
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imasoftov









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 9:34 am
mandksima wrote:
I suppose everybody doesn't believe in reincarnation but I don't see how they can understand a thing in this world without this basic idea.

I don't see how that helps one understand anything. People suffering for things they don't remember doing makes more sense than just saying we can't understand?
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mandksima









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 12:24 pm
imasoftov wrote:
I don't see how that helps one understand anything. People suffering for things they don't remember doing makes more sense than just saying we can't understand?

For me, it helps a lot. It helps me visualize this current life as one of many which includes the same soul and different bodies. It helps me figure out what I'm sent to this current life for and what needs to be accomplished still.

I have worked on getting a feel for my soul's yearning vs my physical desires. Hashem puts us our current situation in the best way to achieve our goals. So, if I'm having a difficulty with someone here or a certain negative emotion, I am pretty certain that is what I was sent here to rectify. Everyone you are in contact with in this life is someone you need to be as they were also in another life. If I have an issue with anger in this life, it is because I wasn't successful in my last life to overcome that negative emotion. It teaches me to not run away from my difficult issues because that defeats the purpose of my life. It helps me remember each difficult situation is a test and Hashem is watching and hoping I will succeed this time.

If there is a special talent I have in this life it is there for me to use to help me achieve my other goals. Nothing is extraneous. Nothing is random. It helps me see the absolute genius of Hashem's work in creating this world and constantly recreating in order for everything to work out perfectly.

Even if I don't remember doing a sin or mitzvah in a previous life, my soul sends me clear indications when I am being honest with my strengths and weaknesses and really want to perfect my soul. I have tackled things recently that I never would have thought I could because it was difficult but I have really tried to face these challenges. I can't tell you the tremendous bracha when doing this and asking Hashem for help. My eyes have been opened to seeing things more clearly now so I feel I must share although this is another difficulty I've had in the past. I am a private, quiet person but I have been working on sharing my thoughts that may be inspirational to others.
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amother




Silver


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 1:20 pm
mandksima wrote:
For me, it helps a lot. It helps me visualize this current life as one of many which includes the same soul and different bodies. It helps me figure out what I'm sent to this current life for and what needs to be accomplished still.

I have worked on getting a feel for my soul's yearning vs my physical desires. Hashem puts us our current situation in the best way to achieve our goals. So, if I'm having a difficulty with someone here or a certain negative emotion, I am pretty certain that is what I was sent here to rectify. Everyone you are in contact with in this life is someone you need to be as they were also in another life. If I have an issue with anger in this life, it is because I wasn't successful in my last life to overcome that negative emotion. It teaches me to not run away from my difficult issues because that defeats the purpose of my life. It helps me remember each difficult situation is a test and Hashem is watching and hoping I will succeed this time.

If there is a special talent I have in this life it is there for me to use to help me achieve my other goals. Nothing is extraneous. Nothing is random. It helps me see the absolute genius of Hashem's work in creating this world and constantly recreating in order for everything to work out perfectly.

Even if I don't remember doing a sin or mitzvah in a previous life, my soul sends me clear indications when I am being honest with my strengths and weaknesses and really want to perfect my soul. I have tackled things recently that I never would have thought I could because it was difficult but I have really tried to face these challenges. I can't tell you the tremendous bracha when doing this and asking Hashem for help. My eyes have been opened to seeing things more clearly now so I feel I must share although this is another difficulty I've had in the past. I am a private, quiet person but I have been working on sharing my thoughts that may be inspirational to others.


What if someone young like 40 can't move their arms to wipe themselves or can hardly walk? What difference does it make if in her previous life she maybe used her arms and legs wrong"" so now needs to correct it?? She doesn't remember her previous life and where is the "light in this type of darkness"??

But she will think that hashem knows what is best and right now this is what is best. She has to have Bitachon but it is a struggle day to day with such hardships.
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shoshanim999









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 3:08 pm
amother wrote:
What if someone young like 40 can't move their arms to wipe themselves or can hardly walk? What difference does it make if in her previous life she maybe used her arms and legs wrong"" so now needs to correct it?? She doesn't remember her previous life and where is the "light in this type of darkness"??

But she will think that hashem knows what is best and right now this is what is best. She has to have Bitachon but it is a struggle day to day with such hardships.



But this is why I feel it is so difficult to have a close relationship with hashem. While we robotically say things like "hashem is perfect and doesn't make mistakes", and "everything that happens is good", we don't honestly feel that way. When c'vs a baby is born deformed or unhealthy, we cry. We beg hashem to change "fix" things and make it better. We never say, " bh, a baby born with 1 leg. Probably in another lifetime this neshama did something with their legs that's requiring a tikun. Hashem, in his compassion is allowing for the correction by giving this person one leg. Boruch hashem! Let's make a big kiddush!" Nobody actually talks this way because nobody honestly feels this way.
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mandksima









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 3:59 pm
What I am saying is how someone can deal with challenges in a positive way IN THEIR OWN LIFE. Yes, we can still daven to ask Hashem to change it as we are not yet tzaddikim. I have often davened that certain situations were too hard for me. I am still working on incorporating these ideas into my reality. It has gotten better as often, soon after I receive devastating news, I remind myself to think about what Hashem wants from me. What did this situation come to teach me? With ourselves, we know the pace we can take to work this positivity into our own lives and we keep trying to learn and grow. Serious traumas are difficult. Hashem doesn't expect perfection but definitely try to figure out what you can learn from or change in a good way now that the trauma has happened. There is a reason and it is not random. I don't believe that they are "punishments" as many times, after a while, we are able to see how they were good, in hindsight. Our mission is to have faith in the beginning and not wait until the clarity is revealed.

When it comes to hardships coming TO OTHER PEOPLE, it is incumbent upon us to daven and cry for them! I am not saying to accept everything with love when it comes to others. We must daven and cry to Hashem to spare them and deal with them with mercy, that we can't take another person's pain and suffering, it is too much. Often a mother can deal with pain as long as she knows her child won't have to suffer. So she davens much harder that her child should be spared and she can take the pain better.

I always comfort myself saying that I know however much I'm hurting, Hashem is here with me, crying and feeling my pain with me. I imagine myself holding His hand. He always does but now, I imagine it and visualize and cry to Him. It hurts Him more than me when I am suffering - just like the mother with her child. Only He knows how it benefits me and it pains Him that I can't see the truth yet but sometimes that is necessary when the thing I need to work on in this life is emunah itself.
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mandksima









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 4:09 pm
amother wrote:
What if someone young like 40 can't move their arms to wipe themselves or can hardly walk? What difference does it make if in her previous life she maybe used her arms and legs wrong"" so now needs to correct it?? She doesn't remember her previous life and where is the "light in this type of darkness"??

But she will think that hashem knows what is best and right now this is what is best. She has to have Bitachon but it is a struggle day to day with such hardships.


Whatever way helps her best. If she has bitachon, then she doesn't have to try to understand it through gilgulim. I'm not saying someone has to. It just helps me a lot because then I'm not only working on bitachon but also trying to figure out why Hashem sent this exact nisayon to me and what I can possibly change in myself because of it. We can't always figure out how to even things out from a previous life. That is not our goal because we don't have all of the information. The previous life isn't important for any reason other than to understand how seemingly bad things can happen to seemingly good people. Our vision is so slight. We can just see what personality traits can be worked on now that wouldn't have been so evident before. We can accept Hashem's plans for us with love and we can try to become closer to Him now that we are more dependent on Him. We can now feel for others in this situation where we wouldn't have had the personal experience to fully feel for them. We can support others in this situations.

I have a friend who survived a terror attack and went on to start a great organization which helps and supports all terror attack victims. She turned her trauma, pain and suffering into something positive and meaningful and for sure, would never have attempted something like that had she never had that trauma personally happen to her. The question should always be - not why did Hashem punish me like this but now what can I do for Hashem and others?
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mandksima









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 4:17 pm
shoshanim999 wrote:
But this is why I feel it is so difficult to have a close relationship with hashem. While we robotically say things like "hashem is perfect and doesn't make mistakes", and "everything that happens is good", we don't honestly feel that way. When c'vs a baby is born deformed or unhealthy, we cry. We beg hashem to change "fix" things and make it better. We never say, " bh, a baby born with 1 leg. Probably in another lifetime this neshama did something with their legs that's requiring a tikun. Hashem, in his compassion is allowing for the correction by giving this person one leg. Boruch hashem! Let's make a big kiddush!" Nobody actually talks this way because nobody honestly feels this way.


We still try to get a refuah when we are able. Some unhealthy babies get surgeries and therapy. Some can't and we live with them and help them where we can and we grow as people when we have challenging kids. Some die after a while but we love them while we can. BTDT. I can honestly say I'm a stronger and better mother, less selfish and more giving after my personal challenges. It wasn't easy to accept in the beginning but I've learned to see everything as brachot. I never say it robotically, I try to really believe it. I KNOW that plusses and minuses will even out somehow, it is all middah kneged middah, I don't need to know the details of a previous life at all. It is just the hug I feel from Hashem when dealing with issues. I KNOW they were necessary. I'm not excited to deal with them but I try to attempt a valiant effort that Hashem would be proud of.
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mandksima









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 4:23 pm
imasoftov wrote:
I don't see how that helps one understand anything. People suffering for things they don't remember doing makes more sense than just saying we can't understand?


It goes with the idea that "punishments" that we feel in this world aren't really punishments and suffering is not always a bad thing. We equate it with negativity but it can be looked at as a chessed from Hashem and a bracha. Suffering is one way our soul receives tikkun. Teshuva could be another way but somehow, Hashem gives us the opportunity. One has to see the bigger picture of life, that is what I am saying. Our souls want things that our minds can't fathom as we are afraid of suffering. We can either say we don't understand anything or we can take these deep secrets that we learn about and try to wrap our heads around it to give us strength and faith. Whatever works best for the individual.
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chicco









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 4:26 pm
Personally I subscribe to the theory that above all else, the reason we were dafka put in this world/ why the world was created was to have a relationship with Hashem. I live by this, and I raise my kids by this.

There are 2 fundamental parts to a close relationship.

1. Being loyal- everything you do should be with the other party's best interests in mind. I.e.- our chiyuv to keep Torah as best as we can.

2. Being trusting- that the other party is extending you the same courtesy (number 1 above).

This is how I understand emunah, and then bitachon. Emuna isn't that blind leap of faith, it's faith as in faithful/loyal. And bitachon is the belief that the other party has our best interests in mind at all times.

Our expectations in a healthy relationship are not: that I do, so you do. Or I need, so you do, but rather- I give all that I am capable of giving, and you give me all that you are capable of. Obviously, Hashem's capacity for giving is much larger than ours. Hashem never demands more than we are capable of. Hashem also gives us the power to define how much and how He gives to us. It's truly remarkable.

Bitachon is all about the struggle of trusting that everything Hashem sends your way is what is best for you. Hashem does not demand that we plaster a smile on our face when we face something difficult. He hopes that we can use it as an opportunity to change our reality and bring us closer to Him. Sometimes that means teshuva, sometimes that means sharing our feelings and our deepest desires with Him. Whether or not there is a bigger picture out there, we can also just see things for what they are right in front of us, and take everything as an opportunity or an exercise to expand our relationship with Hashem.
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mandksima









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 4:31 pm
amother wrote:
"I suppose everyone doesnt believe in reincarnation but I dont see how anyone can understand a thing without this basic idea"

This is a great point but then why is it that in most shiurim this idea is not brought up. Also in all my frum schooling this idea was brought up maybe twice but never to tie in with bitachon.

Is our understanding of bitachon...tied to this? Most shiurim dont tie it together. And what does it mean "our soul picked for us...." ? I tjought we have bechira. Is nt hashem in charge not our soul??


I had a full Jewish education in lower and upper schools and seminary, adult shiurim and yet, only recently did I really start to hear lots of speakers talk about these kind of ideas. It has changed my life. I feel like I learned Torah without the penimus and I cry for the years I didn't know any of this and approached life so negatively but again, that was obviously meant to be. Suddenly kabbalah and Zohar and other esoteric texts are being incorporated into regular Torah shiurim. I think Hashem has sent this to us because we are now ready for it. Moshiach is coming soon BEH and this helps us with baby steps in understanding the world so such ideas won't come to us suddenly and give us a shock.

I tie it into bitachon, I'm not sure if I heard that in certain places or it is how I deal with it. I can't speak for others but I am sharing what works for me.

I have heard quite a few times that our soul is given the choice of it's parents and home life. Whatever would suit it's tikkun in the best way and would give the best opportunity for personal growth, even if that includes a lot of suffering. The soul understands how it is all good but we don't unless we open our minds in a certain way.
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mandksima









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 4:56 pm
chicco wrote:
Personally I subscribe to the theory that above all else, the reason we were dafka put in this world/ why the world was created was to have a relationship with Hashem. I live by this, and I raise my kids by this.

There are 2 fundamental parts to a close relationship.

1. Being loyal- everything you do should be with the other party's best interests in mind. I.e.- our chiyuv to keep Torah as best as we can.

2. Being trusting- that the other party is extending you the same courtesy (number 1 above).

This is how I understand emunah, and then bitachon. Emuna isn't that blind leap of faith, it's faith as in faithful/loyal. And bitachon is the belief that the other party has our best interests in mind at all times.

Our expectations in a healthy relationship are not: that I do, so you do. Or I need, so you do, but rather- I give all that I am capable of giving, and you give me all that you are capable of. Obviously, Hashem's capacity for giving is much larger than ours. Hashem never demands more than we are capable of. Hashem also gives us the power to define how much and how He gives to us. It's truly remarkable.

Bitachon is all about the struggle of trusting that everything Hashem sends your way is what is best for you. Hashem does not demand that we plaster a smile on our face when we face something difficult. He hopes that we can use it as an opportunity to change our reality and bring us closer to Him. Sometimes that means teshuva, sometimes that means sharing our feelings and our deepest desires with Him. Whether or not there is a bigger picture out there, we can also just see things for what they are right in front of us, and take everything as an opportunity or an exercise to expand our relationship with Hashem.


That's beautiful!
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chicco









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 4:59 pm
Thanks Smile I wish more people were taught this way.
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SpottedBanana









  


Post  Mon, Feb 12 2018, 7:13 pm
shoshanim999 wrote:
But this is why I feel it is so difficult to have a close relationship with hashem. While we robotically say things like "hashem is perfect and doesn't make mistakes", and "everything that happens is good", we don't honestly feel that way. When c'vs a baby is born deformed or unhealthy, we cry. We beg hashem to change "fix" things and make it better. We never say, " bh, a baby born with 1 leg. Probably in another lifetime this neshama did something with their legs that's requiring a tikun. Hashem, in his compassion is allowing for the correction by giving this person one leg. Boruch hashem! Let's make a big kiddush!" Nobody actually talks this way because nobody honestly feels this way.


This is not a new question -- the Gemara talks about how now when someone is niftier R"L we say Boruch Dayan Emes whether we like it or not, because we simply can't understand how it's good. When Mashiach comes, however, we will say HaTov VeHameitiv all the time. We are supposed to cry and daven to Hashem when we are in pain and at the same time have bitachon that Hashem is in charge.
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momnaturally









  


Post  Wed, Feb 14 2018, 12:59 am
shoshanim999 wrote:
But this is why I feel it is so difficult to have a close relationship with hashem. While we robotically say things like "hashem is perfect and doesn't make mistakes", and "everything that happens is good", we don't honestly feel that way. When c'vs a baby is born deformed or unhealthy, we cry. We beg hashem to change "fix" things and make it better. We never say, " bh, a baby born with 1 leg. Probably in another lifetime this neshama did something with their legs that's requiring a tikun. Hashem, in his compassion is allowing for the correction by giving this person one leg. Boruch hashem! Let's make a big kiddush!" Nobody actually talks this way because nobody honestly feels this way.

That's why I agree that except for huge tzaddikim bitachon can't mean just accepting whatever Hashem sends rather bitachon means relying on Hashem to provide for us.
Whether that means physically,emotionally or spiritually. If there are things that we can't deal with,can't accept, can't come to terms with, can't be happy then we have the right and the mitzvah to tell Hashem that is the case and he needs to help us.
Hashem wants us to serve him and we can't do so properly if we are not happy people internally and happy with Hashem too.
I don't see how I could have a relationship with Hashem if I would not think this way exactly for the reason you wrote.
That doesn't mean things will always work out how we want but the mindset has to be Hashem I need this and I need you to take care of me. Once something already happened and is already done that is where gam zu LeTova is the mindset we try to work on not before it happens.
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amother




Orchid


Post  Wed, Feb 14 2018, 8:44 am
Often the reason why Hashem sends us difficulties is so that we should cry out to Him. That's why it's for our good; the best thing for us is to develop a relationship with Him.
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shoshanim999









  


Post  Wed, Feb 14 2018, 11:24 am
momnaturally wrote:
That's why I agree that except for huge tzaddikim bitachon can't mean just accepting whatever Hashem sends rather bitachon means relying on Hashem to provide for us.
Whether that means physically,emotionally or spiritually. If there are things that we can't deal with,can't accept, can't come to terms with, can't be happy then we have the right and the mitzvah to tell Hashem that is the case and he needs to help us.
Hashem wants us to serve him and we can't do so properly if we are not happy people internally and happy with Hashem too.
I don't see how I could have a relationship with Hashem if I would not think this way exactly for the reason you wrote.
That doesn't mean things will always work out how we want but the mindset has to be Hashem I need this and I need you to take care of me. Once something already happened and is already done that is where gam zu LeTova is the mindset we try to work on not before it happens.



So bitochon means we "rely" on hashem. But what does that mean and how do we apply it? When we rely on someone or something, we have an expectation about a result.
I rely on waze or a GPS when I travel in unfamiliar areas. Without it, I would have to do what they did 30 years ago and constantly ask the locals directions. With my GPS, I'm good to go.
I rely on my alarm clock to wake up early. If I forget to set it, I might get up late.
I rely on my winter coat to keep me warm. Without it, I'll be cold.
I rely on my husband for tons of things that I see he takes care of.

Obviously everything is from hashem. But how do we apply "relying" on him in a practical way? Do pregnant woman that are relying on hashem for a healthy pregnancy and baby have different results than woman who don't think about hashem? Do they miscarry less because they rely on hashem? Does the person who is relying on hashem have different results in a way that we can clearly see? I'm afraid not. If there are different results in this world, please tell me what they are. The reward comes after 120. Until then we must accept that hashem's cheshbon doesn't make sense and good is bad, and bad is good, and bad things happen either to preserve our reward in the next world or as punishment for something we did in another lifetime, or for an unknown other reason. So while we can say we "rely" on hashem, do we really? And if we do, how are the results different from those that are not relying on him?
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chicco









  


Post  Wed, Feb 14 2018, 3:38 pm
The difference between someone who relies on Hashem versus someone who doesn't isn't in WHAT they experience, but HOW they experience it.
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