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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Purim
Poor Esther
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amother
Saddlebrown


 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:46 am
leah233 wrote:
Achosvarosh didn't just kill his first wife because he was paranoid. And he didn't do it without getting advice from others first.


Of course Eshters life was at risk. (What would she have done had he asked of her what he asked of Vashti?) But not on a day to basis.

According to rabbi yy Jacobson's lecture entitled "achashveirosh and haman in therapy: the psychological brilliance of esther", achashveirosh did kill vashti because of paranoia.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:47 am
DrMom wrote:
I often wondered what a huge demographic ripple effect this must have caused, and no just for Jews: that means that there were virtually no marriageable women across 127 nations.


There's a very engaging historical fiction novel called The Decree by Sarah Feldbrand about a girl who runs away so as to not be taken.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:50 am
seeker wrote:
Maybe consider starting a spinoff about this, I can't see how this is going to add to the discussion of the Purim story.


(Re the living with olam haba in mind post on p. 2)
I think that that's one thing in our toolbox, to know, when things are rough, that we have olam haba to look forward to.
I also think wonder if Rebbetzin Kramer of Holy Woman fame channeled the kochos of Esther Hamalka in her famous line that Auschwitz was not a bad place, because she could still do the ratzon Hashem.
As hellish as Esther's life was, I'm sure that something - the main thing? - that kept her going, and kept her going with some level of menuchas hanefesh, was knowing that wherever she found herself, she could still try to figure out what Hashem wanted of her in that time and place, and live it.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:57 am
amother wrote:
And yet Chazal do their best to neutralize her active role by having us repeat pesukim about Mordechai's power.


(The above was a response to Karnash's excellent post on the top of p. 3 about Esther's transformation from passively reacting to taking charge.)
Be that as it may, this is not how it's being taught now. Rabbi Reisman has frequently said what Karnash did, and as he is a contemporary chochom (and shlita, not zal) I think that this is the lesson we can and should take from the Megillah.
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trixx




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:49 am
octopus wrote:
Yes, Esther made a tremendous sacrifice. In a sense her physical continuity was lost to the Jewish people, because even though her kids were Jewish, they were raised as persians. I feel like she alludes to this when she says "If I am lost, then I am lost." But she left an unbelievable spiritual legacy. And she singlehandedly saved the physical existence of the Jewish people people. Every single Jew can attribute their being alive today to Esther. You have to remember this was galus bavel, so the Jewish people were not all spread out all over the place.


Yes this is what she means. Either I am lost from olam haba for committing adultery. Or I am lost to you. Either way I am doomed.
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trixx




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:50 am
tf wrote:
Esther wasn't a virgin. She was married to Mordechai


After going thru the virgins, the king took the married. Women. There. Was a second pageant
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trixx




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:55 am
amother wrote:
Does anyone remember the name of the thread with the meforshim, or know where I can find out more about the undisclosed details of Esther's story?


Let my people live, by yosef deutsch. Written like a novel with every source included

The gilded cage, a novel that makes you really feel for Esther esp as she raises her son, but not as heavily source based
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 11:41 am
Interesting article:
https://cross-currents.com/201.....orld/
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STMommy




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 1:16 pm
I very highly recommend the book "Let My Nation Live" to learn all the meforshim about the Purim story.
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amother
Bronze


 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 1:45 pm
imasinger wrote:
In terms of what young children learn, it's appropriate for their ages.

My three year old granddaughter said that Vashti got put into the garbage and thrown away.

Most preschools I teach in don't say much about the last makka, just that it happened when Paroh was in pajamas.

They focus more on Antiochus making the beis hamikdash all messy, and on finding the oil, and don't touch on Channa and her seven sons.
.

My kids learnt all of the above. In quite graphic detail.
Can’t say I like it but then again when their grandmother died should I have said she was put in the garbage?
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 1:47 pm
crust wrote:
To be honest, I don't know if I'm that selfless. To live for a full day with a vicious unpredictable Nazi? I would be petrified!!
Think about a week? A full month? A year?
Maybe if I would completely understand why I'm doing what I'm doing and that I'm not just a mabid atzmo l'daas.

But even then, to be trapped for life?!! I honestly don't know if I'd survive.

Plenty of women slept with nazis in order to save themselves. You don’t know what you would have done in that situation. Even more so if your children’s lives were at stake.
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pause




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 4:32 pm
cnc wrote:
Of course, we feel bad for her. It was here on Imamother that I learned how tragic the story of Purim actually is in a sense. (They censor the story in our BY schools. )And my respect and admiration for Esther Hamalkah increased tremendously and she became an even greater heroine in my eyes.


Here ya go:
Was Esther together with Achashverosh
You're welcome!


Last edited by pause on Fri, Mar 02 2018, 5:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
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amother
Babypink


 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 4:34 pm
pause wrote:
Here ya go:
Was Esther together with Achashveirosh
You're welcome!

Are you comparing the woman newly married to the guy who hates her essence, to Esther?
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SuperWify




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 4:39 pm
pause wrote:
Here ya go:
Was Esther together with Achashveirosh
You're welcome!


Care to explain? Scratching Head What
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Moonlight




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 4:46 pm
SuperWify wrote:
Care to explain? Scratching Head What

I think you linked the wrong thread
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pause




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 5:03 pm
I did link the wrong thread. embarrassed

I'm going back to edit now.
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cnc




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 5:04 pm
Correct link:

http://www.imamother.com/forum.....65801

This is the actual link. I’ll have to read it after Shabbos to see if it’s the thread I was referencing but I believe it is.
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pause




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 5:06 pm
cnc wrote:
Correct link:

http://www.imamother.com/forum.....65801

This is the actual link. I’ll have to read it after Shabbos to see if it’s the thread I was referencing but I believe it is.

Yes, that's the one I meant to link to and for some reason the wrong thread got dragged into my URL box. I edited my post already with this thread. Very fascinating read.
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dancingqueen




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 5:09 pm
anuta wrote:
I also think at that time life of any woman sucked, and I imagine they didn't have much choice in their lives.


Yup. Esther’s life was honestly better and more comfortable than the vast majority of her contemporaries.

I also always thought Mordechai was her uncle not her dh.
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Moonlight




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 5:22 pm
dancingqueen wrote:
Yup. Esther’s life was honestly better and more comfortable than the vast majority of her contemporaries.

I also always thought Mordechai was her uncle not her dh.

he was both
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