I am honestly bothered by this

imasinger

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 7:39 am

Growing up not frum, it was a great source of pride to me during and following the BT process that Purim is not Halloween.

Halloween was all about dressing up, knocking on people's doors, and getting treats.

I proudly taught my kids that we as Jews dress up and GIVE treats to others. Sure it's nice when they give back to us, but that's not the real point of the exercise.

I spend time on theme and poem every year because I hope it brings a smile to people.

And yet, every year, I see threads where people are worried/upset for themselves and their children that they didn't get enough MM on Purim.

Did I teach my children wrong? Is it really like Halloween after all?

chicco

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 7:54 am

I'm with you. I tell my kids we drop off with a smile and promptly turn around because there is no expectation to receive in return. We don't give to receive. We give to give. The last thing I would want is people to feel an obligation to give just because I did.

I feel the same way about relationships. I give what I can because I love you, not as an investment so that you will reciprocate equally. It's not tit for tat. If that's the case, save yours for yourself. This way you will always 'have.'

watergirl

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 7:55 am

I think that this is where we feel free to be vulnerable and able to admit being hurt or bummed out. I drive my kids around to give out and pretend not to realize that no one came to us to give them mm. A few people brought to dh and I, but not the kids friends. Better that they should give. And when they went to deliver, some kids gave them back. But yes, its hurtful to think that people dont think of you. Even though the mitzvah is to give and not to get. People are clearly giving. So yes, I think its ok to come here where its supposed to be safe and admit feelings.

Last edited by watergirl on Fri, Mar 02 2018, 8:02 am; edited 1 time in total

chicco

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 8:00 am

That's where the problem lies. Purim should not be the measuring stick for how much people think and love about you. That's a recipe to feel bad about yourself, and usually not even accurate. It's a crazy day for so many reasons. There are so many obligations of the day and it's really hard to get around every where. It's also extremely expensive. Halacha is clear, if you have extra money to do more of the mitzvos of the day, it should go to tzedaka.

I really think people have the wrong attitude with MM and it just breeds unnecessary hurt. This is so far from what chazal had in mind.

noosheen

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 8:04 am

I also spend time & energy on my MM every year. With help from ima mother 😜I also started to include a poem that ties the whole thing together.

But I see, where I live, and I don’t think it’s different anywhere else, that Purim is not the same Purim as when my adult kids, ages 25-31 were young.

Back then it truly was Purim!

Once the main elementary school in my city took over the Purim ‘hassle’ with their ‘convenient - deadline time sensitive- save x amount of u place your order before Jan 15!!’ ads starting bombarding us It was never the same.
They took the fun, joy, excitement away
From us.
Then the ‘in liu of MM tzedakah’ cards started.
Slowly but surely nobody gives anybody anymore.

It’s very sad.

I can’t imagine u - ima singer - have taught your children the wrong values.

No way.

allthingsblue

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 8:32 am

watergirl wrote:

This. For example, if someone only gave out one mishloach manos for the mitzvah and that's it, and I knew that about them, I would give just to give and I wouldn't feel bad. However, if someone is giving only thenpeople considered "friends," then yes, I'd be offended if they didn't give me or even more offended for my kids, but I'd talk myself/my kids out of any hurt feelings.

imasinger

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 8:32 am

watergirl wrote:

The same thing happened to us, but I don't find it hurtful. Nobody intended to hurt or overloook us, we just happen to live off the beaten path, and not be life of the party types.

I do sympathize with the lonely and forgotten of the world. I just wonder about the amplifying effects of the internet, and about it being counterproductive.

watergirl wrote:

But yes, its hurtful to think that people dont think of you. Even though the mitzvah is to give and not to get. People are clearly giving. So yes, I think its ok to come here where its supposed to be safe and admit feelings.

I don't know. Does complaining about people not sending you treats count as an "admission"?

For me, the word "admit" means recognizing that there is something I could do differently or better. A worthy goal, and we are taught that there is a connection between Purim and Yom Hakippurim.

But sometimes, crying about the ways that the world has not been nice to me helps me focus on my hurts, and I walk away mad at others and feeling worse. I'm not always convinced it's the most helpful approach.

That doesn't mean denying loneliness. It means using the pain as a start for real introspection, real admission.

And maybe also listing the reasons one has to feel good and grateful.

amother

Salmon

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 8:38 am

chicco wrote:

That's where the problem lies. Purim should not be the measuring stick for how much people think and love about you. That's a recipe to feel bad about yourself, and usually not even accurate. It's a crazy day for so many reasons. Thbere are so many obligations of the day and it's really hard to get around every where. It's also extremely expensive. Halacha is clear, if you have extra money to do more of the mitzvos of the day, it should go to tzedaka.

I really think people have the wrong attitude with MM and it just breeds unnecessary hurt. This is so far from what chazal had in mind.

Ok, not a proof, but it is still a trigger.

amother

Brown

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:03 am

My son went out on Chabad mivtzoim all day and felt amazing. He only got 1 or 2 personal MM. One DD prepared for everyone in her class and a few others she thought would appreciate and delivered them all. Other DD did something similar. They were so happy. We decided if we are proactive it feels good!

Honestly this issue used to bother me too, but now it doesn't at all.

I also imagine that when my kids are grown iyH, Purim will be extremely low key.

amother

Pink

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:05 am

imasinger wrote:

Totally offended by your post. My Purim is like Halloween bec. I am upset about something?
Please!
Actually, part of GIVING, which you are so proud fo, is to judge others favorably. Especially people who are feeling sad and lonely
This outlook is NOT promoting ahava and achdus..

imasinger

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:11 am

I'm sorry you are sad and lonely.

But you do raise questions.

The comparison to Halloween was an honest question. If you found it offensive, what would introspection reveal about you?

I continue to worry about playing into "poor me." Sometimes, tough love, harsh though it may seem, is the kindest thing a person can do.

amother wrote:

Actually, part of GIVING, which you are so proud fo, is to judge others favorably. Especially people who are feeling sad and lonely
This outlook is NOT promoting ahava and achdus..

And your post is doing so?

Last edited by imasinger on Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:23 am; edited 2 times in total

amother

Hotpink

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:30 am

I was home most of the day waiting for knocks on the door.
Most gave DH in shul. - Let me clarify DH is the Rabbi, and you "have to" give the Rabbi.
And I was ok with that, except for the fact that some did come to my home.
They didn't knock at the door, they just left the package at my front door.

My car was in the driveway.
That means someone was home.

At least knock on the door, and say hello.
Let me see your kids in costume.
My kids and GCs don't live close by.

Don't know what that's all about.
So I spent most of my day home alone.
Waiting in case someone would show up.
And now I have a bunch of my own shaloch manot sitting in my house, because I was not able to reciprocate.

I NEVER spent such a Purim in my life.

I think next year I'm going to set up cotton candy stand and sit outside.

Blessing1

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:30 am

I can't believe that you're even comparing Purim to Holloween! Is Purim really only about Mishloach Manos? What about hearing megilla, giving tzedaka, having meals??? Can we even compare the joy we feel on Purim to lehavdil Holloween?? OP, it's not even a comparison!!! Everyone wants to get meshloach manos that doesn't make it like Holloween at all.

amother

Gold

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:41 am

Blessing1 wrote:

In what way is the joy different? How is it not a comparison? Can you explain yourself more clearly?

Last edited by amother on Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:09 am; edited 1 time in total

FranticFrummie

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:48 am

Halloween is based on The Day of the Dead, ghosts, demons, and scaring people.

Purim is about light and joy and celebrating the fact that we are ALIVE.

I do agree that materialism is destroying so many of our holidays. We need to get back to basics, and dig deep into the meaning of the day, not just the "stuff you have to do." If the big name rabbis would get together behind this, we'd all be better off.

For example, MM is not supposed to be a small bag of candy. It's supposed to be a significant meal, given to someone who otherwise could not afford a seudah of their own. Meat, wine, a salad, side dish, etc. It's also best if it's done anonymously.

Feeding two poor families is the point, not stuffing children full of sugar - or stuffing our egos, either.

amother

Pink

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:05 am

imasinger wrote:

This was a response to your pouring salt on people's wounds. Not hard enough to be sad and lonely, but to be criticized for it........

As for the Halloween comparison! There are no words! I love megillah leining in shul. It is one of the highlights of the year. I also said Tehillim and prepared a Seudas Purim (not a Holloween costume party.) We listened to shiurim about Purim that were truly inspirational.
I think you owe us an apology.

simba

Fri, Mar 02 2018, 10:07 am

Maya wrote:

Whom are we kidding? Of course Purim is our Halloween. Only with more pressure and less fun.

Spewing ... against judiasm again?

I want to be respectful and ask you what about a day spent with family and friends, mitzvos of hearing the megila where Hashem made a Neis and saved the yidden from annhilation, a day where we give tzedaka to everyone who asks, a day of joy and treats. A Seuda with extended family and loads of visitors. A day of happiness and music and delicious kids dressed as Torah's, Mordechai and police.. how is that likened to a pagan holiday remembering the dead?

Forget it, you don't have to answer me.