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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Purim
I am honestly bothered by this
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 8:55 am
Maya wrote:
How could you say that? At the very least, both involve dressing up in costumes and handing out candy/food. That's a minimum of two commonalities.


If you read my post carefully you'll realize I said,
1. everything has "purpose".
2. Depending on ones hashkafos.
3. I wrote except for the sweets dished out between the kids which I hate and might come back to write about.

The delicacies between the adults, again with the proper hashkafos, has purpose.

Dressing up on Purim has a purpose.

Both of them have deeper reason and meaning than the reasons its done on lehavdil Halloween.


Last edited by crust on Fri, Mar 02 2018, 8:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 8:55 am
simba wrote:
She doesn't want to. She found two similarities. Is ignoring the deeper meaning behind each of them and why they are done. Ignoring the rest of the picture. The beauty, the meaning, the history, the chinuch opportunities, the Chesed.

She chose 2 focus on externalities and the material aspects... funny how she claims to have left a community because they do just that.


I guess I'm willing to have an open dialogue ;-D
And that's one community, but she's in another now, and is savvy enough to know that there are even more communities in between those two, and has observed how things are done.
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 8:56 am
simba wrote:
She doesn't want to. She found two similarities. Is ignoring the deeper meaning behind each of them and why they are done. Ignoring the rest of the picture. The beauty, the meaning, the history, the chinuch opportunities, the Chesed.

She chose 2 focus on externalities and the material aspects... funny how she claims to have left a community because they do just that.

I don't believe I ever said that I left the community because they focus on externalities and material aspects. That's just your totally illogical reactions to my posts speaking.
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observer




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 8:57 am
imasinger wrote:
Growing up not frum, it was a great source of pride to me during and following the BT process that Purim is not Halloween.

Halloween was all about dressing up, knocking on people's doors, and getting treats.

I proudly taught my kids that we as Jews dress up and GIVE treats to others. Sure it's nice when they give back to us, but that's not the real point of the exercise.

I spend time on theme and poem every year because I hope it brings a smile to people.

And yet, every year, I see threads where people are worried/upset for themselves and their children that they didn't get enough MM on Purim.

Did I teach my children wrong? Is it really like Halloween after all?


Of course Purim is not at all like Halloween. The bolded is true, and I tell my kids the same.

I don't even know which threads you are referring to about not getting enough MM on Purim, but don't let a few lone threads change your perception.
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 8:58 am
crust wrote:
If you read my post carefully you'll realize I said,
1. everything has "purpose".
2. Depending on ones hashkafos.
3. I wrote except for the sweets dished out between the kids which I hate and might come back to write about.

The delicacies between the adults, again with the proper hashkafos, has purpose.

Dressing up on Purim has a purpose.

Of course it has a purpose, and a traditionally meaningful one at that. But it's still a commonality.
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:08 am
Maya wrote:
Of course it has a purpose, and a traditionally meaningful one at that. But it's still a commonality.


All seven billion people have something in common.
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tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:08 am
dancingqueen wrote:
And minus all the gory/death themes.

.


Except I see more and more of those every year.

But that's a separate discussion Smile
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simba




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:09 am
Maya wrote:
Of course it has a purpose, and a traditionally meaningful one at that. But it's still a commonality.


which makes it one and the same?
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:09 am
crust wrote:
All seven billion people have something in common.

Yes, they do.
Good deflection, though 👍🏼
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amother
Vermilion


 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:14 am
imasinger wrote:
Growing up not frum, it was a great source of pride to me during and following the BT process that Purim is not Halloween.

Halloween was all about dressing up, knocking on people's doors, and getting treats.

I proudly taught my kids that we as Jews dress up and GIVE treats to others. Sure it's nice when they give back to us, but that's not the real point of the exercise.

I spend time on theme and poem every year because I hope it brings a smile to people.

And yet, every year, I see threads where people are worried/upset for themselves and their children that they didn't get enough MM on Purim.

Did I teach my children wrong? Is it really like Halloween after all?


No, you didn't teach your children incorrectly. I'm a very well integrated yeshivish FFB bas BTs, and that's what my parents taught me too.

Purim is about giving. And that's why my husband feels it's important to be proactive about the giving. It shows that we thought of people- weren't just reciprocating, or giving as an afterthought. We prepared 26 MM (not including kids') and only one family got to us before we got to them. (And we started around 9:30.) And a few families didn't reciprocate. We just assumed they were very busy.

Then I went on imamother and read the sad Purim threads, and it made me start thinking.... Hmmm... If we weren't proactive, would we get less MM? Yes... And it can set off more negative feelings.

I don't feel bad because we were mekayem the mitzvah many times over BH,in a thoughtful way.

I think that ppl on IMA are venting about their feelings, and I would feel hurt if no one gave me, too! Is it possible, though, that one person starts and then other opl, who never felt that way, jump on the bandwagon?
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:20 am
Maya wrote:
Yes, they do.


But no one would say "we look the same, we have the same facial features so it must be that we are the same in essence in belief in hashkafa and in everything else."
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tigerwife




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:21 am
I am glad that most posters here have had mainly beautiful, spiritual Purims. I had one myself and really enjoyed the day bh.

But let's not pretend that the day is perfect across all of Klal Yisroel. Take out the spirituality and yes, you have a day LEHAVDIL very similar to to Halloween. Whether the focus is only on mishloach manos bounty or drinking, it's easy to spend the day in a completely gashmi way. Am I the only one who sees notices from hatzallah days in advance begging parents and teens to be careful with their alcohol consumption? Disturbing costumes, disturbing drunk people?

I'm not one to usually be negative about Judaism but the problems exist and won't be solved by pretending they don't. Purim should be a beautiful day and it often is. However, with all of the gashmius involved, it is easy to get carried away by it instead of elevating it.

As per the OP, it might sound like the complaining posts a petty and only want to focus about what they get rather than how much they give. But it's not really about the mishloach manos. It's another reminder about the dearth of people who care.

Wishing everyone a wonderful Shushan Purim and good shabbos!
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:23 am
simba wrote:
Spewing ... against judiasm again?

I want to be respectful and ask you what about a day spent with family and friends, mitzvos of hearing the megila where Hashem made a Neis and saved the yidden from annhilation, a day where we give tzedaka to everyone who asks, a day of joy and treats. A Seuda with extended family and loads of visitors. A day of happiness and music and delicious kids dressed as Torah's, Mordechai and police.. how is that likened to a pagan holiday remembering the dead?

Forget it, you don't have to answer me.

Can you please put yourself in someone else's shoes for a minute? I am not talking about myself or Maya but the things that you mentioned in this post are just not true for many people who come on here and are sad about Purim, and who may feel that all it is is a Jewish Halloween. Its very hard to see kedusha and nissim when:
- you have no money to give tzeddaka to anyone who asks and in fact are recipients of the mysterious envelope that shows up in their mailbox Purim day.
- You have no joy or treats
- You have no extended family and no one comes to visit you (many of us BTs, geirim, widows, divorced women can well relate to that!)
- Music? Where? Many have a husband who isnt interested
- Kids dressed as Torahs? I'm sure you can see how that alone would trigger many.

Many women on this site come here to post and be sad because they HAVE NONE OF THE ABOVE! Threads about what to do with all that junk food, and is it ok to toss are deeply hurtful for many who have no one knocking on their doors! This is such a diverse crowd on imamother, how can you post the above and think that its global for all?

BH I have music, joy, treats, candy that I bought to work today, and I am a BT who did Halloween as a kid and know that its not the same at all. But cant you put yourself in someone else's place for a second? I have been in the place of all of the things I listed above at one time or another. And Purim is not always the kedusha filled day that we wanted it to be. Some years it is painful. Very Very.
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simba




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:23 am
tigerwife wrote:
I am glad that most posters here have had mainly beautiful, spiritual Purims. I had one myself and really enjoyed the day bh.

But let's not pretend that the day is perfect across all of Klal Yisroel. Take out the spirituality and yes, you have a day LEHAVDIL very similar to to Halloween. Whether the focus is only on mishloach manos bounty or drinking, it's easy to spend the day in a completely gashmi way. Am I the only one who sees notices from hatzallah days in advance begging parents and teens to be careful with their alcohol consumption? Disturbing costumes, disturbing drunk people?

I'm not one to usually be negative about Judaism but the problems exist and won't be solved by pretending they don't. Purim should be a beautiful day and it often is. However, with all of the gashmius involved, it is easy to get carried away by it instead of elevating it.

As per the OP, it might sound like the complaining posts a petty and only want to focus about what they get rather than how much they give. But it's not really about the mishloach manos. It's another reminder about the dearth of people who care.

Wishing everyone a wonderful Shushan Purim and good shabbos!


Nice post. Yes, if you take the spirituality out of yiddishkeit then we don't have anything special. That shouldn't be news to us though.
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simba




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:29 am
watergirl wrote:
Can you please put yourself in someone else's shoes for a minute? I am not talking about myself or Maya but the things that you mentioned in this post are just not true for many people who come on here and are sad about Purim, and who may feel that all it is is a Jewish Halloween. Its very hard to see kedusha and nissim when:
- you have no money to give tzeddaka to anyone who asks and in fact are recipients of the mysterious envelope that shows up in their mailbox Purim day.
- You have no joy or treats
- You have no extended family and no one comes to visit you (many of us BTs, geirim, widows, divorced women can well relate to that!)
- Music? Where? Many have a husband who isnt interested
- Kids dressed as Torahs? I'm sure you can see how that alone would trigger many.

Many women on this site come here to post and be sad because they HAVE NONE OF THE ABOVE! Threads about what to do with all that junk food, and is it ok to toss are deeply hurtful for many who have no one knocking on their doors! This is such a diverse crowd on imamother, how can you post the above and think that its global for all?

BH I have music, joy, treats, candy that I bought to work today, and I am a BT who did Halloween as a kid and know that its not the same at all. But cant you put yourself in someone else's place for a second? I have been in the place of all of the things I listed above at one time or another. And Purim is not always the kedusha filled day that we wanted it to be. Some years it is painful. Very Very.


If they don't have money for treats or kids to dress then it is not Halloween either. I have btdt as well and very sympathetic to the reality that can Yomim Tovim more painful then joyous.
This is not what Maya is referring to. She is referring to people who spend tons of money on MM just to show off. She is referring to the fact that many underage kids are given alchohol. She is referencing that many that get so caught up in the costume competition that they forget that there is a deeper meaning to the day. She is right that this is a problem in some circles. Still has nothing to do with haloween.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:31 am
amother wrote:
Is it possible, though, that one person starts and then other opl, who never felt that way, jump on the bandwagon?


Thank you, this is what I was trying to get at, with one clarification.

I don't think it's people who never thought that way.

I wonder if maybe it's other people who already did occasionally feel that way, now thinking more about their hurt and loneliness, focusing on it to the exclusion of more helpful and productive thoughts.

Amother pink, I'm sorry if I hurt you. I suspect one piece of it is that my understanding of Halloween -- growing up, it was all about dressing up and getting treats -- may be different from yours; reading some people's posts here, it seems like they may have been educated "Halloween is a disgusting non jewish practice", in which case, my comparison would be seen as offensive.

In any case, I'm glad the other aspects of Purim were meaningful for you, and am impressed with your last post on this thread about projection.
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amother
Indigo


 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:32 am
Maya come to Cleveland, Purim was amazing here, nothing like halloween and I didn’t see any of the awfulness you mentioned.
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:36 am
I give and don't expect in return. I find kids are more into it because it shows something if you consider someone your bff and they forgot to prepare for you then kids can get insulted.
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simba




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:38 am
amother wrote:
Maya come to Cleveland, Purim was amazing here, nothing like halloween and I didn’t see any of the awfulness you mentioned.


I live in Brooklyn where all the awfulness exists and had a beautiful meaningful Purim.
As a elter chossid once said "if it smells like horse dung wherever you go, check the tip of your nose!"
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Mar 02 2018, 9:38 am
I hate when people compare jewish practices to Christian practices to show how Judaism is superior. As if thee billions of the Christians in the world are the same and practice everybing identically and as if all the millions of Jews practice everything identically????
Why do we need to put down other people to feel good about our own tradition and heritage??


You can talk about what Purim is in terms of how chazal designed it, what it is in your current community, how it feels for you, and these may all be very different.

Personally, I try to keep my expectations low. Purim was really fun when I was a kid and not so fun as an adult, but that’s ok. I think that in 21st century America, it’s generally a very kid focused day and I’m no longer a kid.
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