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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Purim
I am honestly bothered by this
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octopus




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Mar 03 2018, 9:07 pm
ven wrote:
Just as a quick side note halloween is a strictly american custom, it has nothing to do with christianity . It is only " celebrated" in the USA only . Not in europa , africa , asia etc .. it has nothing to do with religion


This is incorrect and I can't believe it got two likes. Halloween was originally a pagan holiday.PAGAN. There are many catholics that don't celebrate halloween, however, there are many christians that do celebrate. That is because when many pagans became christian, the church couldn't fully eradicate all pagan customs. And therefore it was adapted as a christian holiday by many.
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amother
Cerise


 

Post Sat, Mar 03 2018, 9:24 pm
I find this thread so insensitive after reading the raw pain expressed in the thread which prompted this. Why does feeling lonely and hurt because one has no friends, turn Purim into Halloween?

Being frum doesn't automatically relegate us above having human feelings, which means that yes, sometimes we feel hurt when we don't get acknowledged by others.
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Sat, Mar 03 2018, 10:09 pm
OP, a better comparison would be if someone opened the door on Halloween and only gave candy to certain people, while other people are right there.
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amother
Violet


 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 12:24 am
octopus wrote:
This is incorrect and I can't believe it got two likes. Halloween was originally a pagan holiday.PAGAN. There are many catholics that don't celebrate halloween, however, there are many christians that do celebrate. That is because when many pagans became christian, the church couldn't fully eradicate all pagan customs. And therefore it was adapted as a christian holiday by many.


But in current day America it is celebrated as a secular holiday by most.
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MitzadSheini




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 1:03 am
imasinger wrote:


But sometimes, crying about the ways that the world has not been nice to me helps me focus on my hurts, and I walk away mad at others and feeling worse. I'm not always convinced it's the most helpful approach..


Wow. What a thread. It seems like people who are complaining about the op have never read anything else that she has written, and grabbing onto the word "Halloween" and taking it totally out of context, and missing the whole point, which is the quoted.

You gave lots of MM and got none back? Yes. It's sad. But move on. Next year, give one, and expect none. Or give to people who otherwise would not know that it is Purim, and expect none. You can't change the other people. So let go of the resentment, because it's not helping you.

Anyone who wants to write that the op of this thread has no empathy for others are seriously failing to recognise the empathy contained right within the op itself, not to mention all of her other posts.

So I'm guessing that you are missing it in others closer to you as well. Look a little deeper into the people around you, instead of complaining that they didn't think of you. Not for my sake, as it makes no difference to me. But you might be pleasantly surprised, and happier.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 1:29 am
Maya wrote:
Whom are we kidding? Of course Purim is our Halloween. Only with more pressure and less fun.

Didn't read through all 5 pages, but as someone who grew up more or less secular, I don't agree with the above at all.

I don't remember hearing any megilla on Halloween, or having dvrei Torah at a family meal, or even having a family meal on Halloween.

I don't remember there being any lesson or historical background of any real importance on Halloween.

I don't live in a community that does elaborate mm.
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amother
Jetblack


 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 8:04 am
DrMom wrote:
Didn't read through all 5 pages, but as someone who grew up more or less secular, I don't agree with the above at all.

I don't remember hearing any megilla on Halloween, or having dvrei Torah at a family meal, or even having a family meal on Halloween.

I don't remember there being any lesson or historical background of any real importance on Halloween.

I don't live in a community that does elaborate mm.


Purim in the secular parts of Tel Aviv is a massive dress-up fest reminiscent of Halloween (though with less gore). Certainly the pop-up costume shops all along Shenkin look very similar to same in US malls around Halloween.

Halloween - as celebrated by religious Christians is a predecessor to All Hallows day, (or all saints day), and holds religious significance.

So depending on how they are celebrated (and by whom) parallels can be drawn.
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shoshanim999




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 8:14 am
MitzadSheini wrote:
Wow. What a thread. It seems like people who are complaining about the op have never read anything else that she has written, and grabbing onto the word "Halloween" and taking it totally out of context, and missing the whole point, which is the quoted.

You gave lots of MM and got none back? Yes. It's sad. But move on. Next year, give one, and expect none. Or give to people who otherwise would not know that it is Purim, and expect none. You can't change the other people. So let go of the resentment, because it's not helping you.

Anyone who wants to write that the op of this thread has no empathy for others are seriously failing to recognise the empathy contained right within the op itself, not to mention all of her other posts.

So I'm guessing that you are missing it in others closer to you as well. Look a little deeper into the people around you, instead of complaining that they didn't think of you. Not for my sake, as it makes no difference to me. But you might be pleasantly surprised, and happier.



The op doesn't realize that it's not the actual lack of MM with its candy bar and bottle kedem grape juice that's hurtful. Rather, there are few things more painful than feeling excluded. A family that lives in an area with lots of purim hoopla and sees kids and families going around, notices pictures of smiling children with everyone having fun, will naturally feel left out by the realization that nobody took an interest in them and they were left out of the fun. It is completely normal and I'm sure if the op lived on a frum block with all the families exchanging MM while ignoring her, she would feel horrible. Not because she didn't collect candy and useless junk that she doesn't need, but because she was excluded.
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MitzadSheini




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 12:05 pm
shoshanim999 wrote:
The op doesn't realize that it's not the actual lack of MM with its candy bar and bottle kedem grape juice that's hurtful..


Nope. She realizes. YOU'RE missing the whole point of the thread.
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shoshanim999




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 12:21 pm
MitzadSheini wrote:
Nope. She realizes. YOU'RE missing the whole point of the thread.


Maybe, but her op definitely included:

And yet, every year, I see threads where people are worried/upset for themselves and their children that they didn't get enough MM on Purim.


Was this not her (or at least part of) point? That people are getting upset that they didn't receive enough MM?
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MitzadSheini




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 12:42 pm
Nope. Just setting the scene.

Anyone who has been on here for any length of time knows the op of this thread has written literally 1000s of posts helping other people with various issues and dilemmas, all of which offer insight with kindness and wisdom. Seeing people answer this thread (many w/o even a screen name) saying the types of negative things that have been said here has left me absolutely flabbergasted.

The point is this.

Purim is about GIVING not receiving MM.

There could be a myriad of reasons why people didn't give to you that have nothing to do with you.

Focusing on the GIVING aspect will make you much happier than focusing on the receiving aspect.

And MY point is

Anyone who CHAS vSHALOM judges imasinger as insensitive, uncaring or hurtful either

1. Has never read anything she wrote

Or

2. Must be judging everyone in the world in such a negative light and that's the main reason they are complaining about their neighbors.
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 12:45 pm
Telling people who are hurting to "get over it" is rarely effective. it works better to validate the person's pain, let them know they are not alone and reassure them that this is one of the painful aspects of life that need to be worked through.

If your child bumps her knee, you kiss the booboo. You don't tell the child that the bumped knee is nothing and she should get over it. Yes, maybe you think an adult should be beyond crying over booboos and hurt feelings at this point in life. Not everybody is holding there yet. We are all in different stages and have different sensitivities. Once you've validated the pain, the person will be in a better emotional state to move past it. Belittling and brushing off someone's pain only intensifies it.
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 12:47 pm
Jeanette wrote:
Telling people who are hurting to "get over it" is rarely effective. it works better to validate the person's pain, let them know they are not alone and reassure them that this is one of the painful aspects of life that need to be worked through.

If your child bumps her knee, you kiss the booboo. You don't tell the child that the bumped knee is nothing and she should get over it. Yes, maybe you think an adult should be beyond crying over booboos and hurt feelings at this point in life. Not everybody is holding there yet. We are all in different stages and have different sensitivities. Once you've validated the pain, the person will be in a better emotional state to move past it. Belittling and brushing off someone's pain only intensifies it.


Very wise words, Jeanette.
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shoshanim999




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 1:55 pm
MitzadSheini wrote:
Nope. Just setting the scene.

Anyone who has been on here for any length of time knows the op of this thread has written literally 1000s of posts helping other people with various issues and dilemmas, all of which offer insight with kindness and wisdom. Seeing people answer this thread (many w/o even a screen name) saying the types of negative things that have been said here has left me absolutely flabbergasted.

The point is this.

Purim is about GIVING not receiving MM.

There could be a myriad of reasons why people didn't give to you that have nothing to do with you.

Focusing on the GIVING aspect will make you much happier than focusing on the receiving aspect.

And MY point is

Anyone who CHAS vSHALOM judges imasinger as insensitive, uncaring or hurtful either

1. Has never read anything she wrote

Or

2. Must be judging everyone in the world in such a negative light and that's the main reason they are complaining about their neighbors.



Not saying the op isn't sensitive and caring. I'm positive she is. I just think she's completely missing the point in this instance by not acknowledging the pain and hurt that a person can feel when it seems everyone around them is participating in the excitement of purim while nobody seems to realize they exist. Imagine you live on a frum block. Someone is making a wedding and everyone is invited and talking about it. You are the only one not to get an invitation. You wouldn't be human if you didn't feel terrible about being excluded. Not because you want the food at the shmorg. Not because you wanted to eat the fancy dessert, but because you were left out. People who don't get, or hardly get any MM, while seeing families around them hosting big purim parties and giving and receiving MM all day, inevitably feel terrible on purim. I think the op missed this concept.
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amother
Gold


 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 2:03 pm
shoshanim999 wrote:
Not saying the op isn't sensitive and caring. I'm positive she is. I just think she's completely missing the point in this instance by not acknowledging the pain and hurt that a person can feel when it seems everyone around them is participating in the excitement of purim while nobody seems to realize they exist. Imagine you live on a frum block. Someone is making a wedding and everyone is invited and talking about it. You are the only one not to get an invitation. You wouldn't be human if you didn't feel terrible about being excluded. Not because you want the food at the shmorg. Not because you wanted to eat the fancy dessert, but because you were left out. People who don't get, or hardly get any MM, while seeing families around them hosting big purim parties and giving and receiving MM all day, inevitably feel terrible on purim. I think the op missed this concept.

I didn't get even one mishloach manos on Purim, (besides for the one's Chabbad was giving out in the hospital for people to swap). I was in the hospital because I couldn't handle the pain of being home this year, so I went there instead. Nobody in my life even thought to give me.

Did I feel bad or left out? I would have if I didn't take care of myself. Instead I had an amazing and uplifting Purim.

I think that the op's point is valid. I think that the people who can't see both her point and their pain, are too wrapped in their pain to see it. That is okay. Both are valid.
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Shani88




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 2:22 pm
I prefer to give and not receive but that’s impossible. Can’t hide the candy quick enough from my kids! Of course they get treats often but the amount that candy that enters my house really stresses me out. It makes my kids super hyper- I consider it poison!
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shoshanim999




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 2:55 pm
amother wrote:
I didn't get even one mishloach manos on Purim, (besides for the one's Chabbad was giving out in the hospital for people to swap). I was in the hospital because I couldn't handle the pain of being home this year, so I went there instead. Nobody in my life even thought to give me.

Did I feel bad or left out? I would have if I didn't take care of myself. Instead I had an amazing and uplifting Purim.

I think that the op's point is valid. I think that the people who can't see both her point and their pain, are too wrapped in their pain to see it. That is okay. Both are valid.



So it sounds like your saying that you're the type of person that can be excluded by the klal, and not feel bad since you "take care of yourself" to offset the pain of being excluded. It's honestly impossible for me to truly understand what you're describing, as every human being has feelings and it incredibly painful to feel and realize that the people around you don't acknowledge you. I don't see how that gets offset by getting a manicure, eating ice cream, or buying shoes. However, even if in your case it does offset, meaning you are able to cheer yourself up after being shunned by your community By pampering yourself, please realize that with MOST people it wouldn't work. Meaning someone whose feelings are crushed because of loneliness and exclusion, will not feel better after a pampering themselves. I'm sure that in most cases, a family that hardly receives MM, while seeing many around them participating in the festivities, feels very hurt on purim. The fact that you have seemingly figured out a way around this, doesn't mean most wouldn't be devastated.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:20 pm
amother wrote:
I didn't get even one mishloach manos on Purim, (besides for the one's Chabbad was giving out in the hospital for people to swap). I was in the hospital because I couldn't handle the pain of being home this year, so I went there instead. Nobody in my life even thought to give me.

Did I feel bad or left out? I would have if I didn't take care of myself. Instead I had an amazing and uplifting Purim.

I think that the op's point is valid. I think that the people who can't see both her point and their pain, are too wrapped in their pain to see it. That is okay. Both are valid.


I respect your strength and the maturity of your choices.

Being that you said you can listen to more than one valid point I want to make you aware of another point here.

Not every family can technically go to a hospital. Some families just have to sit it out at home period.
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amother
Tan


 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 6:37 pm
A few years ago I had a good friend by my house and while she was over a different friend from the community called her for her address to deliver shaloch manot. I was planning to give this other friend shaloch manot. I was really hurt that she didn't come to my house to deliver to me when I knew She gave my girl good friend. Purim I find to be a very rushed day and I just got annoyed that I felt like I wasn't making an effort to so many people who didn't make an effort for me. Turns out when I came back from my Seuda and while going through my shaloch manot this person I was hurt by all along sent me a shaloch manot I just didn't realize by the poem! I felt so bad! And I realized so what I give ppl that didn't think of me when I get a shaloch manot I wasn't expecting all it doesn't I see make me feel really good and not weirded out. And to the ppl I give that maybe werent going to give me also makes them feel good and strengthens our relationship. This year however I didnt make a lot of mm and didn't go out of my way to certain places but I don't think my friendship is any less. I especially though try to think of people in the community that probaby doesn't get so maby or people who don't have kids yet lo aleinu bc it might be the he hardest for them.
Bottom line.. I think some ppl just don't think but appreciate when they are getting from you and it strengthens a relationship
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noosheen




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 8:14 pm
MitzadSheini wrote:
Nope. Just setting the scene.

Anyone who has been on here for any length of time knows the op of this thread has written literally 1000s of posts helping other people with various issues and dilemmas, all of which offer insight with kindness and wisdom. Seeing people answer this thread (many w/o even a screen name) saying the types of negative things that have been said here has left me absolutely flabbergasted.

The point is this.

Purim is about GIVING not receiving MM.

There could be a myriad of reasons why people didn't give to you that have nothing to do with you.

Focusing on the GIVING aspect will make you much happier than focusing on the receiving aspect.

And MY point is

Anyone who CHAS vSHALOM judges imasinger as insensitive, uncaring or hurtful either

1. Has never read anything she wrote

Or

2. Must be judging everyone in the world in such a negative light and that's the main reason they are complaining about their neighbors.


You’ve stated (but said it much better than I could have ) exactly what I’ve been thinking since I opened this thread.
Thank u for saying this.
I’m with u and ima singer 100%
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