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Hashem Made me be mechallel shabbos HATE MYSELF needCHIZIK
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 7:41 am
What lymnok said. OP, try to do something extra special to honor the Shabbos in the weeks to come. It will enhance Shabbos for you and be an extra zchus.
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Cmon be nice




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 8:16 am
amother wrote:
Halachically this is not true. It is dangerous and you keep driving.

Also we asked chavairim. You have to turn off your car when you get there. Preferably a non Jew does it or a child or with a shinoy.


Why do you need to shut off your car? Halichally? So you wont ruin it? Once she was home there's zero heter, even with a shinui or child? A non jew is probably ok
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Optimystic




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 9:04 am
amother wrote:
I once had to be mechalel yom tov and it was Rosh Hashanah!!!!! I too got stuck in horrible traffic and arrived after rosh hashana began. I don’t want to go in all the details... I was heartbroken to start the new year like that but I don’t think there was any other choice... op, I remember what it felt like even though it was a number of years ago.

Hug I wanted to give you a hug.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 9:26 am
amother wrote:
I went into labor on shbbos and had to make a call to my dr and take a car service.
Same thing here stop hating it.


It is the same thing in that there are times when the situation calls for chillul Shabbos. Labor or a medical emergency is a classic example. I had no problem with doing whatever I had to do.
This is a different situation and I appreciate OP's pain. I also appreciate that she seems to have made this drive many times before so didn't take unreasonable chances. I guess this was a teachable moment, if not for you, other people who can learn from this and will more carefully measure their erev Shabbos traveling.
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 9:29 am
While OP did the best she could think of in her situation, I'm not so sure everyone is correct here halachically. It's not pikuach nefesh to get out of a car and walk to the nearest motel or Jewish community.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 10:23 am
Cmon be nice wrote:
Why do you need to shut off your car? Halichally? So you wont ruin it? Once she was home there's zero heter, even with a shinui or child? A non jew is probably ok

So no one drives away with it? And even if that's a loss you're willing to risk for halacha, what if the person who drives away never learned to drive (but thinks they know how) or is intoxicated? Of course it is worth clarifying this with one's own rabbi (not with Rabba Amother) before the next time this could happen but even if you're willing to be very machmir with someone else's car, there might be other reasons to permit turning it off with a shinui.
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amother
Blue


 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 10:37 am
Im the op. Thanks for all the responses.

I obviously couldnt walk and the closest place was my community. And lets say someone could walk 30 min away. What do you do? Leave the car in the middle of the traffic??? Do you understand that there was nowhere to go??? Every single road was full of cars not moving with green lights. There was nowhere to go. We didnt move except a drop. Also I take the bus. The bus doesnt let ppl off whenever you want. Ppl were cursing to get off but the driver didnt care.

Also anyone who wrote "there are ppl who dont travel after chatzos" THIS IS UNREALISTIC FOR MOST PPL IN NON FLEXIBLE JOBS" I dont like working on friday. I have no choice. I "twisted my boss's arm" to let me leave early. I know this was out of my control. Every week I leave with enough time even with previous snowstorms and other storms. This never happened.

To the poster who said about labor. I went to the hospital on yomtov/shabbos for labor but that is allowed. Im not concerned about labor issues. I know we are allowed.

But, ive never heard about what to do in my situation. This is why this is so confusing.
Thanks everyone.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 10:48 am
amother wrote:
While OP did the best she could think of in her situation, I'm not so sure everyone is correct here halachically. It's not pikuach nefesh to get out of a car and walk to the nearest motel or Jewish community.


Well, let’s think about this.

I presume she was on the east coast, where we had a nor’easter. Trees were down, electricity was out, conditions were hazardous. I also presume she was stuck on a highway. I can think of one major highway where a tree fell, blocking all lanes in one direction and all but one in the other. Unforeseeable.

Is it safe for her to abandon her car on the highway, and walk to the nearest exit in a storm? Doubtful. And what of the potential harm to anyone who might not see the car in the bad weather? Not to mention the fact that it will further slow traffic, including for other Jews trying to get home.

How is she to know where the closest motel is? It could be 10 miles. She would probably need her GPS to get her there. Why is using the GPS better than driving?

And the motel isn’t going to give a room to this now extremely bedraggled person without identification and a credit card. So she’s carrying her purse without an eruv (and let’s face it, even with an eruv, its muktzah), using her credit card, and signing. Why is this better than driving?

OP, things happen. You did the best that you could do under the unforeseen circumstances. I suggest that you speak to your rabbi, who will almost certainly give you comfort, as well as guidance should this ever happen again. The wonderful thing about Judaism is that we can learn and do tshuva, knowing that Hashem loves and forgives those who return to Him.

Shavua tov.
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amother
Cerulean


 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 11:00 am
amother wrote:
Im the op. Thanks for all the responses.

I obviously couldnt walk and the closest place was my community. And lets say someone could walk 30 min away. What do you do? Leave the car in the middle of the traffic??? Do you understand that there was nowhere to go??? Every single road was full of cars not moving with green lights. There was nowhere to go. We didnt move except a drop. Also I take the bus. The bus doesnt let ppl off whenever you want. Ppl were cursing to get off but the driver didnt care.

Also anyone who wrote "there are ppl who dont travel after chatzos" THIS IS UNREALISTIC FOR MOST PPL IN NON FLEXIBLE JOBS" I dont like working on friday. I have no choice. I "twisted my boss's arm" to let me leave early. I know this was out of my control. Every week I leave with enough time even with previous snowstorms and other storms. This never happened.

To the poster who said about labor. I went to the hospital on yomtov/shabbos for labor but that is allowed. Im not concerned about labor issues. I know we are allowed.

But, ive never heard about what to do in my situation. This is why this is so confusing.
Thanks everyone.



So you have described very clearly why it was a hopeless situation and entirely not your fault. Why do you hate yourself?
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 11:07 am
The fact that you were on a bus, and not actually driving, definitely makes it much much less problematic halachically.
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 12:28 pm
I know of two people who had very similar situations this past shabbos. In both cases they were able to reach a rav before Shabbos (while stuck) and were told to do whatever they needed to do to get home safely because they were in a makom sakanah. As other posters pointed out, it is certainly unsafe to abandon your car in a storm to walk miles and miles in an unknown direction.
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 12:36 pm
I just thought of this story. It seems apropos:


https://www.chabad.org/library.....s.htm

Quote:
In his youth, the famed Maggid of Zlotchov, Rabbi Yechiel Michel, lived in a certain town, where he would sit all day in the local Beit Midrash (study hall and synagogue) and pursue his studies.

In that town there lived a simple Jew who earned his livelihood by transporting travelers and merchandise in his wagon. One day, the wagon driver came to the local rabbi in a state of great distress. "Help me, Rebbe!" he wept. "I have committed a terrible sin. I have desecrated the holy Shabbat. How can I atone for my transgression?"

"How did this come to pass?" asked the Rabbi.

"Last Friday," the man explained, "I was returning from the marketplace with a wagonload of merchandise when I lost my way in the forest. By the time I found my way to the outskirts of the city, the sun had already set. So preoccupied was I with my worry over the merchandise, that I failed to realize that the Shabbat had arrived until it was too late..."

Seeing how broken-hearted the man was, the rabbi comforted him and said: "My son, the gates of repentance are never closed. Donate a pound of candles to the synagogue and your transgression will be forgiven."

The young prodigy, Rabbi Michel, overheard this exchange, and was displeased by the rabbi's approach. "A pound of candles to atone for violating the Shabbat?" he thought to himself. "The Shabbat is one of the most important mitzvot of the Torah. Why is the rabbi treating the matter so lightly?"

That Friday afternoon, the wagon driver brought the candles to the synagogue. As Rabbi Michel watched disapprovingly from his table against the back wall, he placed them on the lectern for the synagogue beadle to light in honor of the Shabbat. But this was not to be. Before the beadle arrived, a stray dog carried off the candles and ate them.

The distraught penitent ran to report the incident to the rabbi. "Woe is me!" he wept. "My repentance has been rejected in Heaven! What shall I do?!"

"You're making too much of the matter," the rabbi reassured him. "These things happen — there's no reason to deduce that G‑d is rejecting your repentance. Bring another pound of candles to the synagogue next week, and everything will be alright.".

But when the beadle lit the candles on the following Friday afternoon, they inexplicably melted down, so that by the time Shabbat commenced, nothing was left of them. And upon his third attempt on the week after that, a strong wind suddenly blow out the candles just when Shabbat began and it was not possible to relight them.

The rabbi, too, realized, that something was amiss, and advised the wagon driver to seek the counsel of the great Chassidic master, Rabbi Israel Baal Shem Tov.

"Hmm..." said the Baal Shem Tov, upon hearing the man's story. "It seems that a certain young scholar in your town finds fault with the path to repentance that the rabbi has prescribed for you. Never mind. Next week, donate another pound of candles to the synagogue. This time, I promise you that everything will be alright. And tell Rabbi Michel that I would be honored if he could trouble himself to come visit me."

Rabbi Michel wasted no time in abiding by the Baal Shem Tov's request. But no sooner had he and his coachman set out that all sorts of troubles beset their journey. First, the wagon tumbled into a ditch. Then, an axle broke many miles from the nearest town. After which they lost their way altogether. When they finally found the road to Mezhibuzh it was late Friday afternoon and the sun was about to set. They were forced to abandon the wagon and continue on foot.

Rabbi Michel arrived at the Baal Shem Tov's door an hour into Shabbat, weary and traumatized by his near-violation of the holy day. "Good Shabbat, Reb Michel," Rabbi Israel greeted him, "come in and warm yourself by the fire. You, Reb Michel, have never tasted sin, so you did not comprehend the remorse a Jew feels at having transgressed the will of his Father in Heaven. I trust that you now understand something of the agony that our friend experienced. Believe me, his remorse alone more than atoned for his unwitting transgression..."
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 1:43 pm
Do NOT walk on the highway. Please do NOT. My husband looked into this, apart from terrible stats I won't even write down, it is NOT the required way.
Also if your stay in a hotel will be constant mechallel because you have nothing to eat, no way to pay, no shabbes key... consider calling a rav he may say drive.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 2:33 pm
amother wrote:
While OP did the best she could think of in her situation, I'm not so sure everyone is correct here halachically. It's not pikuach nefesh to get out of a car and walk to the nearest motel or Jewish community.


We don't know where she was.
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 2:38 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
We don't know where she was.


Of course.
I didn't say what she did was wrong. Everything depends on the situation.

But, everyone is so quick here to say that it's the right thing to do. Which in some cases it is and in some cases it isn't.

Shabbos isn't something just to be disregarded out of convenience, it has to be real pikuach nefesh. And while we of course want to make OP feel better about herself, and of course in this case it was very possibly the correct course of action, that does't mean making light of malochos on Shabbos.

It also makes a huge difference how soon after Shabbos came in it is.

And even when someone does have to continue driving or riding on a bus, there are also additional issurim such as carrying things home after that, especially muktzah things such as a handbag. There are a lot of aspects to it that have to be considered.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 2:53 pm
Lavender, it is complicated.
6ofW had some good stuff earlier this page.
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:11 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
Lavender, it is complicated.
6ofW had some good stuff earlier this page.


I agree that it's complicated. That's why I don't think it's for imamothers to just say that everything is always okay. In some cases it is and in some cases it isn't.
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:14 pm
amother wrote:
I agree that it's complicated. That's why I don't think it's for imamothers to just say that everything is always okay. In some cases it is and in some cases it isn't.


Can you quote someone who said "Everything is always okay"?
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amother
Vermilion


 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:36 pm
Cmon be nice wrote:
Why do you need to shut off your car? Halichally? So you wont ruin it? Once she was home there's zero heter, even with a shinui or child? A non jew is probably ok


Chavairim said it is dangerous to leave a car running that is filled with gas. I guess there have been reported fires from such things.
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rydys




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 04 2018, 3:46 pm
I'm not a posek and don't pretend to be one, so this is not a psak, just some comfort for you. You can discuss my thoughts with your Rav as well to see if I'm correct.

You mentioned that you were on a bus. I know that it is mutar to be on a boat on Shabbos, just not to embark or disembark, I wonder if this counts as a similar situation. In terms of getting off, you were in a forced situation, the driver certainly would not have let you stay on for the whole Shabbos!

My father was once the speaker at a kiruv seminar in another city. He was in the airport when his flight was cancelled. The seminar arranged for a private plane for him, which would take off with enough time to get to the hotel, but not much wiggle time. The Rav involved said he could take the flight as long as it took off on time, but if he landed after Shabbos he would have to be carried off the plane! (The hotel was in walking distance of the airport) B"H he got to the hotel just before the zman. But the pilots thought it was hilarious that they might have to carry him off!

It seems to me from what I mentioned above that it is possible that being on the bus itself was not such a problem, only getting off the bus, but again please discuss this with a Rav and don't take it as Halacha!
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