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Requiring Drug Testing For Food Stamp Recipients
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Mevater




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 11:18 am
The Trump administration is considering a plan that would allow states to require certain food stamp recipients to undergo drug testing, handing a win to conservatives who’ve long sought ways to curb the safety net program.

The proposal under review would be narrowly targeted, applying mostly to people who are able-bodied, without dependents and applying for some specialized jobs, according to an administration official briefed on the plan. The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations, said roughly 5 percent of participants in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program could be affected.

The drug testing proposal is another step in the Trump administration’s push to allow states more flexibility in how they implement federal programs that serve the poor, unemployed or uninsured. It also wants to allow states to tighten work requirements for food stamp recipients and has found support among GOP governors who argue greater state control saves money and reduces dependency.

Internal emails obtained by The Associated Press indicated that Agriculture Department officials in February were awaiting word from the White House about the timing of a possible drug testing announcement.

“I think we just have to be ready because my guess is we may get an hour’s notice instead of a day’s notice,” wrote Jessica Shahin, associate administrator of SNAP.

Conservative policymakers have pushed for years to tie food assistance programs to drug testing.

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, a Republican, sued the USDA in 2015 for blocking the state from drug testing adults applying for food stamps.

A federal judge tossed the suit in 2016, but Walker renewed his request for permission later that year, after Donald Trump had won the presidency but before he took office.

“We turned that down,” said former USDA Food and Nutrition Service Undersecretary Kevin Concannon, who served in the position under the Obama administration from 2009 until January of last year. “It’s costly and cumbersome.”

The proposal is not expected to be included in a GOP-written farm bill expected to be released as soon as early this week, a GOP aide said.

Federal law bars states from imposing their own conditions on food stamp eligibility.

Still, some states have tried to implement some form of drug testing for the food assistance program, so far with little success.

Judges have blocked similar efforts in other states. In Florida in 2014, a federal appeals court upheld a lower court’s ruling that drug testing SNAP recipients is unconstitutional.

But at least 20 states have introduced legislation to screen safety net program participants in some capacity, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

In December, Walker began moving ahead with a workaround, drug testing participants in the state’s Employment and Training Program who also received food stamps.

USDA under Trump has not taken a public position on drug testing. But Secretary Sonny Perdue has promised to provide states with “greater control over SNAP.”

“As a former governor, I know first-hand how important it is for states to be given flexibility to achieve the desired goal of self-sufficiency for people,” he said. “We want to provide the nutrition people need, but we also want to help them transition from government programs, back to work, and into lives of independence.”

The emails obtained by the AP suggest that a plan could be forthcoming.

The plan would apply to able-bodied people who do not have dependents and are applying for certain jobs, such as operating heavy machinery, the official said.

In a February 15 email to USDA officials, Maggie Lyons, chief of staff to an acting official at the Food and Nutrition Service, said, “We need to have a conversation about timing given budget and when the (White House) wants us to release drug testing.”

If the administration moves forward, it would not be the first time drug testing was used in a safety net program.

At least 15 states have passed laws allowing them to drug-test recipients of Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, also known as welfare.

The discussion of the future of SNAP and potential changes to the program are set against the backdrop of the 2018 farm bill, slated for release as soon as this week. The bulk of the bill’s spending goes toward funding SNAP, which often proves the most contentious part of negotiations; late last month, House Agriculture Committee Ranking Member Collin Peterson, D-Minn., issued a statement on behalf of Democrats denouncing “extreme, partisan policies being advocated by the majority.”

Ed Bolen, senior policy analyst at the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities think tank, said requiring drug testing for food benefits will have consequences for already vulnerable populations. What’s more, he said, implementing drug testing for SNAP recipients is legally murky.

“Are people losing their food assistance if they don’t take the test, and in that case, is that a condition of eligibility, which the states aren’t allowed to impose?” he said. “And does drug testing fall into what’s allowable under a state training and employment program, which typically lists things like job search or education or on-the-job experience? This is kind of a different bucket.”

The emails also show that USDA is weighing the possibility of scaling back a policy currently enacted in 42 states that automatically grants food stamp eligibility to households that qualify for non-cash assistance, like job training and childcare. The proposed change, which would impose income limits, could potentially affect millions.

Republicans tried to make similar changes when Congress passed the 2014 farm bill, but the cuts were rejected by Democrats and did not end up in the final bill.

Concannon, the former USDA undersecretary, said the Trump administration “is keen on weakening the programs developed to strengthen the health or fairness or access to programs and imposing populist requirements that aren’t evidence based, but often stigmatize people.”

The USDA in recent months has been under fire for its controversial plan to replace a portion of millions of food stamp recipients’ benefits with a pre-assembled package of shelf-stable goods dubbed “America’s Harvest Box.” The food box plan was tucked into the Trump administration’s proposed 2019 budget, which included cutting the SNAP program by $213 billion over the next 10 years. SNAP provides food assistance to roughly 42 million Americans.

https://www.theyeshivaworld.co......html

Great idea. Many spend our tax dollars on drugs,

What do you think?
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Sadie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 11:27 am
No problem, as long as Congress has to be drug tested too.
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Mevater




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 11:32 am
Sadie wrote:
No problem, as long as Congress has to be drug tested too.


Funny.

While Americans support Congressmen and women as well, its not bankrupting our government nationwide to the extent that food stamps and other programs are.
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Sadie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 11:36 am
Mevater wrote:
Funny.

While Americans support Congressmen and women as well, its not bankrupting our government nationwide to the extent that food stamps and other programs are.


Didn’t mean it as a joke.

The real joke is that anyone could believe that food stamps are bankrupting our government or even close to it.
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leah233




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 11:38 am
Mixed feelings.

In essence it is a good idea but adding more levels of government bureaucracy and encouraging government overreaching doesn't usually end well.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 11:43 am
I don't understand the link between food stamp applications and job applications. Sure, people who apply for jobs operating heavy machinery should undergo drug tests. But I think its ridiculous to tell people -- or their dependents -- that they can't eat if they have a drug problem.

But even if I didn't, let's look at what happened when states started drug testing TANF recipients:

MISSOURI
Cost $336,297
People tested 48,970
Positive drug tests 48

OKLAHOMA
Cost $385,872
People tested 3,342
Positive drug tests 297

UTAH
Cost $64,566
People tested 9,552
Positive drug tests 29

KANSAS
Cost $40,000
People tested 2,783
Positive drug tests 11

MISSISSIPPI
Cost $5,290+
People tested 3,656
Positive drug tests 2

TENNESSEE
Cost $5,295
People tested 16,017
Positive drug tests 37

ARIZONA
Cost $499 (How's they do that?)
People tested 142,424
Positive drug tests 3

Total cost: $837,819
People who tested positive: 427

I'd prefer dedicating resources to eliminate fraud. Investigate and prosecute people who work under the table in order to receive benefits, or who lie about their household (claiming that one parent doesn't live there in order to eliminate their salary). Get rid of the people who don't need the benefits, not those who do.
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chatz




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 11:44 am
I'm kind of confused. It doesn't seem to be saying that people on food stamps will need to take a drug test. It seems to say that certain people (able bodied, no dependents) applying for heavy jobs will need to take a drug test. It seems to be job tied. How will that help lessen dependency on food stamps or lessen drug use or increase incentives to work? Did I misunderstand?
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leah233




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 11:44 am
Sadie wrote:


The real joke is that anyone could believe that food stamps are bankrupting our government or even close to it.


My opposition to food stamps (and other government programs) is seeing the corrupting affect is has on the people who rely on them. Not the costs.

If the government took the money it spent on foodstamps and spent it on across the board subsidizing very basic nutritious foods instead I would no issue with the money involved.
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iriska_meller




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 11:45 am
Food stamp is actually a very tiny percentage of federal budget. It’s not bancrupting anyone
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leah233




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 11:55 am
SixOfWands wrote:
I don't understand the link between food stamp applications and job applications. Sure, people who apply for jobs operating heavy machinery should undergo drug tests. But I think its ridiculous to tell people -- or their dependents -- that they can't eat if they have a drug problem.

But even if I didn't, let's look at what happened when states started drug testing TANF recipients:

MISSOURI
Cost $336,297
People tested 48,970
Positive drug tests 48

OKLAHOMA
Cost $385,872
People tested 3,342
Positive drug tests 297

UTAH
Cost $64,566
People tested 9,552
Positive drug tests 29

KANSAS
Cost $40,000
People tested 2,783
Positive drug tests 11

MISSISSIPPI
Cost $5,290+
People tested 3,656
Positive drug tests 2

TENNESSEE
Cost $5,295
People tested 16,017
Positive drug tests 37

ARIZONA
Cost $499 (How's they do that?)
People tested 142,424
Positive drug tests 3

Total cost: $837,819
People who tested positive: 427

I'd prefer dedicating resources to eliminate fraud. Investigate and prosecute people who work under the table in order to receive benefits, or who lie about their household (claiming that one parent doesn't live there in order to eliminate their salary). Get rid of the people who don't need the benefits, not those who do.


How did it cost Oklahoma over $115 per test when the other states managed to do for less than $10?

$10 is nothing when you factor in the general bureaucratic costs of these programs.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 12:02 pm
leah233 wrote:
My opposition to food stamps (and other government programs) is seeing the corrupting affect is has on the people who rely on them. Not the costs.

If the government took the money it spent on foodstamps and spent it on across the board subsidizing very basic nutritious foods instead I would no issue with the money involved.


Close to 70 percent of SNAP participants are in families with children; nearly a third are in households with seniors or people with disabilities.

Why should people who need food stamps not get to choose what they eat?

How would you feel if SNAP concluded that all recipients must be vegans? Or excluded kosher products due to cost?

The US budget is about $3.9 trillion. SNAP accounts for $70.9 billion as of a few years ago.
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thunderstorm




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 12:09 pm
I wonder what happens to people like my mothers husband who has cancer. He was prescribed legal marijuana to deal with the pain etc. Let's say he was on Food Stamps (which he is not) , would he be denied benefits if tested positive? He had to give up his job because of his illness. What's if he lived alone and didn't have any other source of income and he needed those Food Stamps?
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 12:14 pm
leah233 wrote:
How did it cost Oklahoma over $115 per test when the other states managed to do for less than $10?

$10 is nothing when you factor in the general bureaucratic costs of these programs.


According to Trump, there are 43 million Americans receiving SNAP. If you tested each one, even at $10 each (and I doubt that's a real figure), that's $430 million a year. To catch about 82,000 people. And how many of those have kids? You want to tell little Chana that she can't eat anymore because Ima puffed up?

Its all show, with no real benefit to anyone.
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leah233




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 12:17 pm
SixOfWands wrote:


(1)Why should people who need food stamps not get to choose what they eat?



(2)How would you feel if SNAP concluded that all recipients must be vegans? Or excluded kosher products due to cost?

(3)The US budget is about $3.9 trillion. SNAP accounts for $70.9 billion as of a few years ago.


(1)When you are asking others to pay for your food you lose the right to be choosy. If I'm paying for other peoples food I should have the right to insist that it must be healthy.

(2)I would not have an issue if foodstamps was limited to fruits and vegetables. There would no logic in insisting that only a certain group (vegans) are eligible or only excluding a certain type of food (kosher)

(3)As above my issue with foodstamps isn't the cost.The number of food stamp recipients grew by an astounding 70% under Obama.

https://www.washingtontimes.co.....er-o/

It's time to stop that growth
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leah233




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 12:23 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
According to Trump, there are 43 million Americans receiving SNAP. If you tested each one, even at $10 each (and I doubt that's a real figure), that's $430 million a year. To catch about 82,000 people. And how many of those have kids? You want to tell little Chana that she can't eat anymore because Ima puffed up?

Its all show, with no real benefit to anyone.



For my last post on this thread:

No problem with the money. It is less than a tenth of a percent of the costs per recipient.

If little whoever's mother know that she will lose foodstamps for being a druggie maybe she won't become or remain one and start living her life more productively.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 12:26 pm
leah233 wrote:
(1)When you are asking others to pay for your food you lose the right to be choosy. If I'm paying for other peoples food I should have the right to insist that it must be healthy.

(2)I would not have an issue if foodstamps was limited to fruits and vegetables. There would no logic in insisting that only a certain group (vegans) are eligible or only excluding a certain type of food (kosher)

(3)As above my issue with foodstamps isn't the cost.The number of food stamp recipients grew by an astounding 70% under Obama.

https://www.washingtontimes.co.....er-o/

It's time to stop that growth

You can take the teeny percentage that you pay towards food stamps and demand that go towards healthy food. I’ll take my teeny percentage and fargin people a treat.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 12:43 pm
When you pay for necessities, you free up disposable income. Less money needed to spend on food - more money for drugs.

In the frum community, that freed up monsey might go for matching outfits.

I firmly believe that abled bodied people need a job and responsibilities to ground them.

I don't know the answer. Druggies often don't eat regularly and sell their food stamps for drugs. We have a big drug problem that must be addressed somehow.

Perhaps those that test positive be given vouchers for soup kitchen type places.
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simcha2




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 1:01 pm
I'm curious which drugs it would test for. Would it test for prescription opioids? Would you then have to provide the prescription? Statistically alcohol and opioids are the most likely drugs to be abused.

Or, do we ignore those for heroin, marijuana and cocaine only?

Seems like it would be ripe for a legal challenge. And honestly, seems like it would hurt most those who need the food stamps the most.
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Bluesky 1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 1:05 pm
nothing trump does is something im willing to even listen to. so can we talk about the next issue
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 12 2018, 1:22 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
Its all show, with no real benefit to anyone.

ITA.

One more stupid war-on-drugs idea that will simply enlarge the government bureaucratic class.

Honestly, I'd rather subsidize drug addicts than government bureaucracies. There is a far better chance that a drug addict will kick the habit than the government will ever voluntarily reduce its size, cost, or meddling.
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