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amother




Lavender


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 7:50 pm
10 yo DS has had issues for a while and I've been working with therapists etc for several years. A big concern (for me) was him "losing it" several times a year (once or twice a year the past 3 years or so, more before then).

By "losing it" , I mean throwing things and/or breaking things... it can be scary (especially since he's only getting older). He'd been doing reallllllly well the past 6 months or so but has been in a bad place for the past week or two. DH and I went to talk to the psychologist today and the session was really helpful and reassuring in the sense that I feel like he (the dr) understood what we were talking about and had a plan... (as opposed to previous therapists who thought it was all parenting or other external factors).

The part that left me heartbroken and terrified is when the dr said that we have to have very clear boundaries (of what he can do or not) and tell him that if he gets out of control again (ie throwing/breaking things) we will call the police (and obviously he-the dr-would like us follow through). I seriously cannot breathe. He's 10 and this happens once or twice a year but I know if I tell him I'm going to do that (call the police) I will have to and... how can I do that? To him as well as my other kids (who would likely be present)? And what does this (potentially needing to call the police on a 10 yo!) say about him and the severity of his issues?!!?

I am beyond... devastated and would love some chizzuk and support Crying or Very sad

(I have no one to talk to irl, no one outside the immediate family is aware of the extent of his issues and for now I'd like to keep it that way)...
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amother




Sapphire


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 7:55 pm
If this is something you can not follow through with, don't. Get a second opinion, just as you would for any other issue of real concern. I would not follow his advice, based on the limited information you've shared here.

ETA I've come across this numerous times, where parents put too much faith in doctors, therapists, or other experts. Yes, you need a certain element of trust in order to receive help. But if something feels off to you, it very well might be so. Follow your gut and find another professional whose advice doesn't make you stop breathing.
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amother




Jetblack


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 8:01 pm
Pease please please get him tested for pandas *by a pandas-informed MD* and for Lyme by an LLMD. Psychologists see rage in children as a psychological or emotional issue, but in more and more people are finding out that it is actually medical in nature. My nephew had rage for years, he had so many therapists, he was making progress but then would just regress right back, all of it went away after a few week on treatment for pandas.
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amother




Sapphire


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 8:05 pm
amother wrote:
Pease please please get him tested for pandas *by a pandas-informed MD* and for Lyme by an LLMD. Psychologists see rage in children as a psychological or emotional issue, but in more and more people are finding out that it is actually medical in nature. My nephew had rage for years, he had so many therapists, he was making progress but then would just regress right back, all of it went away after a few week on treatment for pandas.


I agree with this as well. Dr Susan Shulman will respond to your email and let you whether it's worth pursuing, even if you don't live near NY.
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amother




Fuchsia


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 8:07 pm
I would get a second opinion.
If you call police they may report you to children's services (ACS).
If you must, ask dh to reach out to a friend who is in shomrim or police and ask him if he and his buddy would be willing to respond to your "911 call", if it should come to that. They can show up to your home without taking your child. Maybe their appearance would be enough.

Having said all of that, I would not recommend calling 911 for a child this young.

My heart goes out to you. Our ds did similar things at that age and just this week got triggered and threw all the contents of the pantry onto the floor and threw some ripe avocados as well. I empathize with you.

Is the psychologist a trauma therapist? I'd be surprised if a trauma therapist would recommend calling 911.
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mha3484









  


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 8:09 pm
If you have not read it, I really suggest reading the explosive child. It has helped me so much with my child.
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crust









  


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 8:21 pm
He's not the first 10 year old child that breaks things twice a year.

There's more than one way to address this.

Of course you do need more firmness and you do need to set boundaries but police?
Come. On.
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thunderstorm









  


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 8:22 pm
My brother went through this. He had the cops called on him at the age of 11 and was locked up in a psychiatric ward multiple times . This was after my mother was advised to put him in a residence. This DESTROYED him. He is an adult with a child now. Very responsible and does not show any form of mental illness. He has not forgiven my mother for putting him through that hell. (He is 28 yrs old) He was labeled and they didn't address the underlying issues and assumed it was all psychological. Please get more than one second opinion. This is not a simple thing at all. The poor boy suffered needlessly. Yes he had behavioral issues but it it was coming from a place of pain not mental illness. He was put on so many different types of drugs too, eventually he stopped taking it all and throwing them away. That's when he started being his normal self again.
Also, my own DS was showing signs of PANDAS the pas few months and the doctor was looking into it, when suddenly Pesach he ended up being hospitalized for not being able to walk, and he had confirmed Lyme Disease. The pediatrician told me that Lyme Disease symptoms and PANDAS are very similar and that all his weird behavior is all making sense now. Please have a thorough work up done on your child before taking the extreme route. Many hugs to you. I hope you find a yeshua really quickly .
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imasinger









  


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 8:28 pm
I'm with crust.

IMNSVHO, I think this psychologist was wrong, wrong, wrong.

There are other more effective ways to handle an out of control child than doing something that raises the ante and the stress level.

There is a program near me called Center for Effective Child Therapy, that specializes in helping parents of children with issues like this. I believe they can Skype if that could work for you. PM me for details if you are interested.
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amother




Fuchsia


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 8:30 pm
thunderstorm wrote:
My d) He was labeled and they didn't address the underlying issues and assumed it was all psychological. Please get more than one second opinion. This is not a simple thing at all. The poor boy suffered needlessly. Yes he had behavioral issues but it it was coming from a place of pain not mental illness. He was put on so many different types of drugs too, eventually he stopped taking it all and throwing them away. That's when he started being his normal self again. .

Re the bolded: our ds was taken to psychiatric at age 12. Hell for five years. The drugs did nothing to resolve the underlying issues. In fact, the drugs caused him to go into a homicidal rage at which point he quit the meds. .
He still throws things about three to four times a year. It used to happen every month, so this is an improvement.
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amother




Jetblack


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 8:31 pm
thunderstorm wrote:
My brother went through this. He had the cops called on him at the age of 11 and was locked up in a psychiatric ward multiple times . This was after my mother was advised to put him in a residence. This DESTROYED him. He is an adult with a child now. Very responsible and does not show any form of mental illness. He has not forgiven my mother for putting him through that hell. (He is 28 yrs old) He was labeled and they didn't address the underlying issues and assumed it was all psychological. Please get more than one second opinion. This is not a simple thing at all. The poor boy suffered needlessly. Yes he had behavioral issues but it it was coming from a place of pain not mental illness. He was put on so many different types of drugs too, eventually he stopped taking it all and throwing them away. That's when he started being his normal self again.
Also, my own DS was showing signs of PANDAS the pas few months and the doctor was looking into it, when suddenly Pesach he ended up being hospitalized for not being able to walk, and he had confirmed Lyme Disease. The pediatrician told me that Lyme Disease symptoms and PANDAS are very similar and that all his weird behavior is all making sense now. Please have a thorough work up done on your child before taking the extreme route. Many hugs to you. I hope you find a yeshua really quickly .
Curious to know what hospital you were in, pleasantly surprised to hear they were really well informed regarding both pandas and lyme, most ER's are clueless.
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Frumwithallergies









  


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 8:37 pm
Please don't throw out random diagnoses. PANDAS is a controversial diagnosis; Lyme disease is controversial, particularly chronic Lyme (more so where I come from).... you need to go to a reputable physician, not to a physician who guarantees a positive Lyme result.

Your son needs an appropriate diagnosis.

Has he been investigated by a pediatrician? Psychiatrist? Neurologist?
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creditcards









  


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 8:38 pm
If you want your child to resent you for his entire life call the cops. Don't be surprised if he goes ahead and calls the cops on you first...
I honestly don't believe any good will come out of it.
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amother




Jetblack


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 8:41 pm
Frumwithallergies wrote:
Please don't throw out random diagnoses. PANDAS is a controversial diagnosis; Lyme disease is controversial, particularly chronic Lyme (more so where I come from).... you need to go to a reputable physician, not to a physician who guarantees a positive Lyme result.

Your son needs an appropriate diagnosis.

Has he been investigated by a pediatrician? Psychiatrist? Neurologist?
Where do you come from? I'm curious to know where pandas is still considered controversial.
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amother




Red


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 8:45 pm
Wondering if this psychiatrist is frum or even Jewish?! Went through similar experience. Had a lovely frum female psychiatrist which gave us plenty of options before calling police. Besides for son going on meds, we went weekly for sessions to our son's therapist for guidance on how to handle this child. It really made a big difference knowing where to be firm and how to deal with all "tantrums'. Some sessions the therapist role played with us... My son is doing so much better b"h. Please don't call police. You may have more trouble that way! May Hashes give you lots of koach that you'll definitely need for this child!! Hug
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amother




Babyblue


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 8:47 pm
I'm so confused. There must be more to the story.

A 10-year-old having a tantrum twice a year is not exactly severe.
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thunderstorm









  


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 8:59 pm
amother wrote:
Curious to know what hospital you were in, pleasantly surprised to hear they were really well informed regarding both pandas and lyme, most ER's are clueless.

Westchester Children's Hospital
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thunderstorm









  


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 9:05 pm
Frumwithallergies wrote:
Please don't throw out random diagnoses. PANDAS is a controversial diagnosis; Lyme disease is controversial, particularly chronic Lyme (more so where I come from).... you need to go to a reputable physician, not to a physician who guarantees a positive Lyme result.

Your son needs an appropriate diagnosis.

Has he been investigated by a pediatrician? Psychiatrist? Neurologist?

What is a physician that guarantees a positive Lyme test?
My son had Lyme showing up in his blood and in fluid that was removed from his knee joint. Both were positive. There were about 10 different types of blood work done to rule out Lyme and the only thing that came back negative was the IGM which shows if there are recent antibodies fighting the Lyme. Since it's negative this is indicative that it may have been in his body for a while. We now have to see an infectious disease doctor who specializes in Lyme to figure out how recent the Lyme is and if he needs to be on IV antibiotics rather than oral.
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PAMOM









  


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 9:13 pm
What does the psychologist expect the police to do? Does he want/expect them to take your son to a hospital? If he needs to be hospitalized, is likely to harm you physically if you take him instead?
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amother




Jetblack


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 9:21 pm
amother wrote:
I'm so confused. There must be more to the story.

A 10-year-old having a tantrum twice a year is not exactly severe.
OP likely means breaking things like furniture, doors, expensive electronics. Not his brother's toy car.
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