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Hearbroken and terrified by meeting with psych today, need c
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Frumwithallergies









  


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 10:34 pm
À simple search for pANDAS reveals: 'The PANDAS hypothesis was based on observations in clinical case studies at the US National Institutes of Health and in subsequent clinical trials where children appeared to have dramatic and sudden OCD exacerbations and tic disorders following infections.[4] There is supportive evidence for the link between streptococcus infection and onset in some cases of OCD and tics, but proof of causality has remained elusive.[5][6][7] The PANDAS hypothesis is controversial; whether it is a distinct entity differing from other cases of Tourette syndrome (TS)/OCD is debated.[3][8][9][10][11]

PANDAS has not been validated as a disease entity;[4] it is not listed as a diagnosis by the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD) or the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM).[12]". This is from the well-referenced but unscientific wikipedia.

Further perusing of that wiki entry reveals that there are specific criteria that need to met for the proposed auto-immune disease.
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amother




Gray


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 11:03 pm
Maybe you should look at different opinions if calling the police for such a young child is helpful. If it's Chas veshalom ever necessary I would say if you can't calm down and you need help I will call hatzalah. That reduces the chances that he will call police on you. If you have that in your area I would call them for help over the police
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amother




Denim


Post  Sun, Apr 15 2018, 11:48 pm
Our ds also can totally lose control sometimes. It comes from a combination of a number of things.
1. inner frustration
due to a number of things
2. doesn't understand and accept boundaries like another typical kid would.
3. anger management.
We work with him in all areas. He is work in progress. I definitely would not call the police but there needs to be something severe in place to demonstrate lines where serious boundaries are crossed. You can decide what will be severe enough to get the point across.
But Don't think for a second he can't control himself without enough motivation.
I don't believe in raising children through too much rewards. I believe in positive encouragement and genuine interest in their lives and accomplishments However I felt like making an exception for once and agreed to give him something he really wants if he does not lose it for 3 months straight. Meaning even if he gets angry he does not lose control.
He is already a month on his way.
Just to give you an idea, until now he was losing it at least once a week.
Yes broken windows,doors etc.
Our boundaries became people (not inanimate objects) after a scare and he learned that can never happen again. I did not want to water down the boundaries by including other things. People are more valuable than money. Although we will obviously remove him if he was damaging things and there were consequences but not anywhere near the level of boundaries that cannot be crossed.
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byisrael









  


Post  Mon, Apr 16 2018, 12:50 am
I work with explosive children in a dorm situation. When there is explosive rage (throwing rocks at us, throwing and breaking everything in site ect.) we do holding, this gives clear boundries while showing the child that we are there and love them. We never call the police unless they are in real danger or pose a real danger(we had a kid running thru a busy street in a rage and was almost hit by a car a bunch of times.

You do need to be trained to do this the right way AND be strong enough physically to restrain a fighting child with tons of adrenaline pumping thru them, and you my get bit. It's important also for you to stay calm and repeat "we love you and therefore cannot allow you to hurt yourself or others". This is the hardest part - staying completely unemotional.

If you do call the police on the child it is good to go and sit down with someone from the local percinct in advance and have them work together with you and the phsychologist. The police are surprisingly helpful when they are forwarned and terrible when they aren't.

We sometimes have kids call the police on us saying that we hit them (we never ever would) and the fact that the police has an understanding of what kind of kids we are dealing with is extremely helpful because they interrorgate the kid with a warning that false accusations are illegal which usually helps a 10 year old stay truthful instead of the valadation and chocolates they gave to the first kid who called them before we realized we need to preempt these situations.
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amother




Cerulean


Post  Mon, Apr 16 2018, 10:15 am
hugs to you op, this is a parents worst nightmare. I totally understand. this must be traumatic to you as well. get yourself help you also need someone to help you calm down. before you do anything drastic as calling police think about it. go for a second opinion. dont just follow what one professional has said to you.

and calling police on such a young child? that in itself might be traumatic. I dont know your child so I cant give you advice.

I hope you get to the bottom of this.

what does your pediatrician say about this? do you have a good pediatrician?
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amother




Cerulean


Post  Mon, Apr 16 2018, 10:17 am
op you say in your first post that he is doing them less and less. so why now call the police? if he is improving why go that route? you are doing something right. so maybe just continue what you are doing? what made the doctor say this? its imp for you to understand
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amother




Cerulean


Post  Mon, Apr 16 2018, 10:19 am
amother wrote:
If this is something you can not follow through with, don't. Get a second opinion, just as you would for any other issue of real concern. I would not follow his advice, based on the limited information you've shared here.

ETA I've come across this numerous times, where parents put too much faith in doctors, therapists, or other experts. Yes, you need a certain element of trust in order to receive help. But if something feels off to you, it very well might be so. Follow your gut and find another professional whose advice doesn't make you stop breathing.


this every word. get a second or third opinion. only based on what you told us here op.
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SixOfWands









  


Post  Mon, Apr 16 2018, 10:31 am
amother wrote:
10 yo DS has had issues for a while and I've been working with therapists etc for several years. A big concern (for me) was him "losing it" several times a year (once or twice a year the past 3 years or so, more before then).

By "losing it" , I mean throwing things and/or breaking things... it can be scary (especially since he's only getting older). He'd been doing reallllllly well the past 6 months or so but has been in a bad place for the past week or two. DH and I went to talk to the psychologist today and the session was really helpful and reassuring in the sense that I feel like he (the dr) understood what we were talking about and had a plan... (as opposed to previous therapists who thought it was all parenting or other external factors).

The part that left me heartbroken and terrified is when the dr said that we have to have very clear boundaries (of what he can do or not) and tell him that if he gets out of control again (ie throwing/breaking things) we will call the police (and obviously he-the dr-would like us follow through). I seriously cannot breathe. He's 10 and this happens once or twice a year but I know if I tell him I'm going to do that (call the police) I will have to and... how can I do that? To him as well as my other kids (who would likely be present)? And what does this (potentially needing to call the police on a 10 yo!) say about him and the severity of his issues?!!?

I am beyond... devastated and would love some chizzuk and support Crying or Very sad

(I have no one to talk to irl, no one outside the immediate family is aware of the extent of his issues and for now I'd like to keep it that way)...


Please talk to someone else.

Once you involve the police, you may well lose control of the situation. A juvenile court could order interventions that you would prefer not to have, or could order residential treatment. Or ... I don't know what else.

I'm figuring that if no one outside the immediate family is aware of his issues, then ht's not completely out of control. I also assume that he's not intending to harm others; rather, he loses control of himself.

Good luck.
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naomi2









  


Post  Mon, Apr 16 2018, 1:58 pm
Another thing to consider. Policemen are not psychologist. They are armed law enforcement what kind of scenario could play out if your ds becomes agressive with them? Or they show up to see him threatening you?
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Miri7









  


Post  Mon, Apr 16 2018, 2:39 pm
I seriously question this psychologist's advice.
The police are not to be used as a consequence for a child's inability to regulate. I agree that once police are called, then you do lose control of the situation. This truly seems like horrible advice.

What did the psychologist think would happen when the police arrived? Did the psychologist think that it would benefit the child to be taken into custody, or put in the back of the cruiser?

It seems that the psychologist is setting you up to threaten your child with a consequence for "bad" behavior. While I agree that it is important to set clear limits on your child's behavior, it appears that the problem is that your child is unable to control himself. Not that he is unwilling. The psychologist should be working with you to address the root causes of the behavior, to give your son tools to regulate his emotions and rage. Telling you to threaten to call the police assumes that your child is able but simply not willing to behave appropriately - I think that this is not typically the case for children.

While having a clear plan may feel good, it sounds to me like this is a very bad plan. I would not implement it and would seek out another psychologist. Calling the police on your 10 year old child will likely do far more damage than good.
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Iymnok









  


Post  Mon, Apr 16 2018, 3:02 pm
I feel that the message being sent by parents calling the police on a ten year old is a bad one any way you fold it.
I’ve given up on you.
You are a bad person.
I can’t help you.
You are stronger than me, so I need armed backup.
Your inability to regulate is too scary for me.
The ability to regulate is too hard for you (so we must use extreme force)
We have no idea.
You are crazy and need to go to a crazy people place.

I’m confident that there are better options out there. You need to find someone with an imagination and a heart.
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amother




Cerulean


Post  Mon, Apr 16 2018, 3:07 pm
Iymnok wrote:
I feel that the message being sent by parents calling the police on a ten year old is a bad one any way you fold it.
I’ve given up on you.
You are a bad person.
I can’t help you.
You are stronger than me, so I need armed backup.
Your inability to regulate is too scary for me.
The ability to regulate is too hard for you (so we must use extreme force)
We have no idea.
You are crazy and need to go to a crazy people place.

I’m confident that there are better options out there. You need to find someone with an imagination and a heart.


I love every word you wrote. So much compassion for someone you don't know. Wow. I'm impressed
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Miri7









  


Post  Mon, Apr 16 2018, 4:59 pm
I came back, OP, because I can't stop thinking about you and your child.

I wanted to add that my kids, who have no identifiable "issues," have sometimes broken things or torn them up in a fit of anger. I think that is pretty normal. They have big feelings and just don't know how to deal with it or control it.

I have one DD who has always had a hard time losing her temper. She isn't violent - just furious and slams doors. We have worked with her on it a lot and I think it has helped her for us to say - hey, that isn't acceptable. We are here for you and will help you learn to tame your temper. Kids need firm boundaries with loving support to figure this out and work on themselves.
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amother




Peach


Post  Mon, Apr 16 2018, 5:20 pm
It seems most posters here think that calling the police is not an appropriate response to the situation that the OP described.

And they may be right.

But I want to point out that we really don't have all of the details, and it might actually be the best response. We don't know the extent of her ds's behavioral issues, of his anger management, of his violence. We don't know if he is a typical kid trying to work on self-regulating, or if he has real personality disorders or mental illnesses or neurological issues.

That being said, if OP is not comfortable with this advice she should definitely seek further opinions.
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Iymnok









  


Post  Mon, Apr 16 2018, 5:42 pm
amother wrote:
It seems most posters here think that calling the police is not an appropriate response to the situation that the OP described.

And they may be right.

But I want to point out that we really don't have all of the details, and it might actually be the best response. We don't know the extent of her ds's behavioral issues, of his anger management, of his violence. We don't know if he is a typical kid trying to work on self-regulating, or if he has real personality disorders or mental illnesses or neurological issues.

That being said, if OP is not comfortable with this advice she should definitely seek further opinions.


HE'S ONLY TEN!!!
Yes he may be difficult every now and then, but he’s still a kid. If he were 15 or so maybe I’d feel different. But this is still not what the police are trained for.
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greenfire









  


Post  Mon, Apr 16 2018, 5:59 pm
heartbroken & painful ... please don't call the police unless someone is being killed

love hugs & prayers
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amother




Peach


Post  Mon, Apr 16 2018, 6:31 pm
Iymnok wrote:
HE'S ONLY TEN!!!
Yes he may be difficult every now and then, but he’s still a kid. If he were 15 or so maybe I’d feel different. But this is still not what the police are trained for.


I know. And this might be terrible advice from the psychologist. But we, here, don't know his reasoning or all the facts.

There are young kids diagnosed with psychopathy who will literally attempt to murder their siblings or parents if given the opportunity. I heard of a six year old who tried to choke his baby sibling while both were strapped into car seats, mom driving on the highway.

Kids who will hold their families hostage with fear of their violence, and no recourse or discipline is effective. No threat or consequence that the parent can make is ever enough to stop the violent behavior. Younger siblings cowering in their closets in fear, terrified, parents begging and crying while the 10 year old hurls glass bottles or knives at their heads.

Maybe this is not the OP's situation at all.

Maybe the OP's psychologist is just bad at his job. Or maybe his advice has a rational basis.

Regardless, if OP feels uncomfortable with the advice, as I wrote and others also said, she should absolutely see someone else.
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amother




Babyblue


Post  Mon, Apr 16 2018, 6:34 pm
amother wrote:
I know. And this might be terrible advice from the psychologist. But we, here, don't know his reasoning or all the facts.

There are young kids diagnosed with psychopathy who will literally attempt to murder their siblings or parents if given the opportunity. I heard of a six year old who tried to choke his baby sibling while both were strapped into car seats, mom driving on the highway.

Kids who will hold their families hostage with fear of their violence, and no recourse or discipline is effective. No threat or consequence that the parent can make is ever enough to stop the violent behavior. Younger siblings cowering in their closets in fear, terrified, parents begging and crying while the 10 year old hurls glass bottles or knives at their heads.

Maybe this is not the OP's situation at all.

Maybe the OP's psychologist is just bad at his job. Or maybe his advice has a rational basis.

Regardless, if OP feels uncomfortable with the advice, as I wrote and others also said, she should absolutely see someone else.


Yes, that exists, but there is absolutely nothing in the OPs post to suggest it's that sort of situation. She specifically says she's he "loses it" a couple of times a year, and by "losing it" she means throwing or breaking things. That certainly doesn't warrant calling the police!
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amother




Peach


Post  Mon, Apr 16 2018, 6:49 pm
amother wrote:
Yes, that exists, but there is absolutely nothing in the OPs post to suggest it's that sort of situation. She specifically says she's he "loses it" a couple of times a year, and by "losing it" she means throwing or breaking things. That certainly doesn't warrant calling the police!


True, OP didn't write that. But she also didn't explain the psychologist's justification or reasoning for his advice, so it would seem there are some gaps here as to what we, readers of this thread, understand about the situation.

If this is, in fact, a very severe situation and the expert's advice was right on target, it could be terribly harmful for all of the imamothers to be telling the OP to ignore the said advice.

Again, as we really don't know all the facts, but OP is not comfortable with the advice given by the professional, it would seem to me that her best course of action is to find someone whom she feels more comfortable with to advise her.

OP, I hope my posts don't come across as harsh. I can only imagine how difficult and painful this situation is. I"h you should find the right shaliach for you and your son, and he will outgrow this phase and be a source of much nachas.
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amother




Forestgreen


Post  Mon, Apr 16 2018, 8:21 pm
mha3484 wrote:
If you have not read it, I really suggest reading the explosive child. It has helped me so much with my child.


Dr Ross Greene-the author of this book specializes in these kids. -those everyone seems to have given up on. His Facebook community page can be a source of support and guidance. ( and also hearbreak-bc of the difficult parenting challenges people have.)
As well as his website- You can possibly use it to help find likeminded therapists.
His philosophy is wonderful and effective. (I dont feel skilled enough to present it here. But feel
its worth mentioning bc it can be a life changing savior.
Hatzlacha!!

Edited to add link.

https://www.livesinthebalance.org/

So many free resources and videos.

To quote from his site:
All kids have times when they struggle to handle life's expectations. Those with significant behavioral challenges seem to have more of those times, and respond in ways that are more extreme. But whether your child responds in ways that are more concerning -- hitting, kicking, screaming, swearing, biting, spitting -- or in ways that are more tame -- whining, pouting, sulking, crying, withdrawing -- your goal is to identify and solve the problems that are causing those behaviors. ....


And he then gives practical steps ...

I deeply believe its worth a try!
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