S/o why put more emphasis on bar than bat mitzvahs?

amother

Plum

Thu, Apr 19 2018, 10:42 pm

Why are bar mitzvahs more important and more money spent on bar mitzvahs than bat mitzvahs, I never understood this. They both are considered adults now, why should boys be more than girls? And why do people give bigger bar mitzvah monetary gifts to boys than girls? (Seforim I could understand.)

amother

Ruby

Thu, Apr 19 2018, 10:46 pm

its not tznius for a girl to have the kind of party that a boy has.

gift giving protocols are really the discretion of the giver. some people give same no matter what the 'event' is - some give based on what they are invited to.

amother

Plum

Thu, Apr 19 2018, 10:49 pm

amother wrote:

What does tznius have to do with anything?!

amother

Ruby

Thu, Apr 19 2018, 11:00 pm

amother wrote:

What does tznius have to do with anything?!

Does your community invite men to Bas Mitzvah parties?

pesek zman

Thu, Apr 19 2018, 11:14 pm

amother wrote:

Does your community invite men to Bas Mitzvah parties?

I don't get the woman/girls only bas mitzvah tend. Why are bar mitzvahs not men/boys only? Why are weddings allowed to have both genders? I think it's a way to 'scale down' bas mitzvahs under the guise of tznius, which has absolutely nothing to do with it.

amother

Rose

Thu, Apr 19 2018, 11:25 pm

There are some that say fancy bar mitzvahs are an American mishegas. In Europe a bar mitzvah was not a big deal. You had an aliyah and a kiddush.

I know a family that still tries to do it this way. But they do take the boy's feelings into account, so if he wants a party with his friends they do that. But they barely invite anyone to the bar mitzvah seudah, and they do it very simply.

amother

Ruby

Thu, Apr 19 2018, 11:27 pm

pesek zman wrote:

we had a long thread on this awhile back - but I can't find it, unfortunately. (and some wedding the men are basically in a separate room from the women, celebrating with the chosson).

I know there is a lot more to it than 'not tznius'.

amother

Tan

Thu, Apr 19 2018, 11:50 pm

Bas Mitzvahs are not a religious event. They are a recently made up thing that is making its way ti orthodox circles.

When I was a girl, only non- orthodox had Bas Mitzvahs. I had a Bas Torah, and it was with all the girls that turned 12 that year.

DrMom

Thu, Apr 19 2018, 11:56 pm

amother wrote:

What do you mean it is not a "religious event?"

Doesn't the fact that a girl reaches the age of mitzvaot have religious implications?

amother

Tan

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 12:08 am

DrMom wrote:

What do you mean it is not a "religious event?"

Doesn't the fact that a girl reaches the age of mitzvaot have religious implications?

Implications - yes. She can check eggs.

There is no sudar mitzvah. She doesn't read from the Torah. She doesn't put on a hat, a white shirt, and tefillin. Her appearance stays the same. And she still doesn't count for a minyan.

You can't see the difference?

amother

Coral

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 12:18 am

amother wrote:

Did you actually put a hat in the same sentence as tefillin? Talk about confused priorities!

You are right that being an adult doesn't grant a woman full membership in the community. And yet, her relationship to Hashem changes and some of us think that counts for something.

amother

Oak

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 12:32 am

I felt very guilty making my son a nice bar mitzvah a year after my Dd had a tiny bas mitzvah w just us at home.
I don't get ity either.

amother

Tan

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 12:35 am

amother wrote:

You caught me out - you clever one. My priorities are just so confused!!!

A male completely changes his appearance. I can tell the boys who made bar mitzvah from those that didn't in my community.

The girls relationship is more private. Her appearance doesn't change from one day to the next. It counts for something...

amother

Coral

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 1:03 am

amother wrote:

So if a boy changes his appearance, there's no need to mark the transition with a party. Everyone knows already.

The real reason we give boys priority here is because of their entry into the public life of the community. Girls don't really have a public role, and so traditionally, their transition to adulthood as been ignored.

amother

Tan

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 1:19 am

amother wrote:

I am not interested in reengineering orthodox Judaism. I like my traditional role at home and in my community; although, I am a raging feminist in the workplace.

It is actually a good thing financially there isn't community pressure to have the same big over the top blowout for the girls.

amother

Coral

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 1:24 am

amother wrote:

The big over the top blowout for boys is a recent innovation. Throwing a huge party for a boy (or giving him a fedora and investing it with religious symbolism) is already a reengineering of Orthodox Judaism. We change things all the time. Once in a while it's ok if the changes are positive for women.

jerusalem90

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 1:30 am

It's a throwback to the time when males were considered superior. Today a lot of people won't change because "that's the tradition".

I just hope the change comes from making both bar and bat mitzvah into small meaningful religious events and not just also giving girls a ridiculous party.

amother

Tan

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 1:33 am

amother wrote:

I don't agree. I spent about $1000 on DD's party and close to $30,000 on DS's party. That doesn't include the kiddish, and I didn't buy a new sheital or a diamond anniversary band. The community can't afford to match the girls with the boys. I often get appeals to give money for Bar Mitzvahs as it is. Do you really think we should impose another obligation on top of all the ones now because some think it is positive for woman?

Girls will have their days when they get married.