S/o why put more emphasis on bar than bat mitzvahs?

amother

Purple

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 12:21 pm

eema of 3 wrote:

What I said was that in different situations different people have different values. My point is that they are NOT equal, each person, each child, has their own tool set which makes them unique. To raise all of our children as equals would be a disservice to them. To say that boys and girls, men and women are equal would not be true. All are valuable, all have their own strengths and weaknesses. To not recognize that is unfair. Different doesn’t mean lesser though. So just because males and females have different obligations within Judaism, that does not mean that one should be celebrated more than the other. It doesn’t mean one is more or less valuable, it means each person is valuable in a different way, in heir own unique way.

True. But in raising our children, our children are all in the same situation. They are all in their childhood, in the process of being raised. In that case, they don't have a different 'value'. They all have equal value in the situation of being a child. Therefore, their value of reaching a milestone should be equally celebrated.

I agree that each child is unique, has different capabilities and will contribute to life differently. But no one here is saying that we should handle, educate and approach each child in the exact same manner. They are saying we should celebrate their milestones in the exact same manner.

ETA - From a parent to child relationship viewpoint, each child should be equally valuable in their parents eyes. Their uniqueness and differences should not cause a parent to value one child differently than the other.

amother

Puce

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 12:34 pm

amother wrote:

I love that, powderblue! My daughter is just a baby, but I would love to do something like that for her!
I'm chassidish, and the way it works in our community is; Bar Mitzvah's are for family, usually in a small hall, sometimes at home (depending on the financial situation and the amt of boys in the family... - I've been to both) totally not over the top. The meal is usually only for close family and there is a sweet table for everyone who is invited to dessert.
Bas mitzvas are much smaller. I had a shaloshudes for my class, and my mother went with me to get a piece of jewelry. I felt very special, and never thought about being jealous or that it's not fair that boys get a bar mitzvah.

Another thing I forgot to mention... many, or even most bar mitzvas I went to, the bar mitzvah boy made a siyum so that it should be a seudas mitzvah.

amother

Jade

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 12:37 pm

amother wrote:

I didnt have time to read the whole thread yet.
But this bothers me a lot. Lakewood rw. So when my girls became bas mitzva I did as big as I could within standards. We dont Iinvite classmates but neither do the boys. In a school with 8 parallel classes and lots of rearranging my daughter would want to invite 95 classmates former classmates and friends. So the schools dont let. But boys also.
So we made a really fancy in house party for her for family. Rented tablecloths and napkins. China and silverware. 3 course meal plus a homemade sweet table. She spoke, my husband and I spoke and some grandparents gave divrei bracha.
She made challa by herself with a few friends the day of her bas mitzva, and she said over a synopsis of hilchos hafrashas challa.
My husband learned with her in advance of her birthday significant portions of kitzur shulchan aruch- kashrus, brachos, shabbos, yom tov, ribbis, and a few others. And I learned sefer mishlei and tehillim with her.
No we didnt have a 300 person party but we showed her how important we view her new status.
Oh and we bought her a new dress and earrings and paid to have her hair done.
And after the event I made a photo book for her.
Tznius, special and I spent no more than $700 including the dress because I did the cooking myself and got most of the stuff at gemachs.

Amazing, I hope I remember every bit of this for when my daughter turns 12.

goodmorning

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 12:40 pm

chicco wrote:

At a bar mitzvah- we are celebrating that he has reached the point for which he was created- to perform mitzvos. That is the general tachlis of all men. Obviously, each one has his individual tachlis, but in a general sense, they were created to perform mitzvos, and we are celebrating his ability to do so now in a real way. A woman has a different role in the world, which regardless of how many tomatoes are thrown at me for saying this, is much more centered around the home. Obviously a woman is capable of "more" than homemaking, but I do believe (again ducking for tomatoes) that a woman's role in the world in much more focused on creating and sustaining a home in both the physical and spiritual aspects.

Nothing to do with the bar/bas mitzvah debate, but we were all created to do mitzvos. That is the tachlis of all Jews, men and women.

Our "different role" may be a manifestation of different mitzvah obligations, but our role is still to perform mitzvos.

eschaya

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 12:56 pm

OP, I'm with you all the way.
For our dd's bas mitzvah (she is our oldest child and our only daughter) we had a kiddish after shul to celebrate with community and friends where dd and dh both spoke, then a Sunday party for family and her friends. Dh had learned koheles with her since her bas mitzvah is right after succos and she spoke about that. The sunday party was a beautiful (home catered) brunch in our back yard. My parents even flew in, which added to her feelings of chashivus. I recognize that a kiddish in shul isn't something that can be done for a bas mitzvah in most frum communities, but in the unique oot town where we lived then, it was completely acceptable. The entire affair was chashuv and meaningful, but did not break the bank since we made all the food for the party and did the decor and project ourselves too.
We are now planning for our first son's bar mitzvah, and intend to do it very similarly. A kiddish in shul (in the yeshivah where dh teaches, as we are now in another, also oot, community), then a nice, home-catered bo bayom party for family and friends. Of course there will be differences between the events. Ds will get tefillin. He will lain and say his pshetl in shul. He will have an aliyah. We will probably hire a yeshiva guy to play music to have some dancing (this would be instead of the projects we did at dd's party). But it will be different in the specifics, not in the scale. And that is the important piece here. (And neither party+kiddish cost more than very few thousand dollars).

amother

Tan

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 1:54 pm

fmt4 wrote:

This thread makes me SICK.
Amother tan, please do us all a favor and tell us what community you belong to. I want to make sure that I stay far far away from there.

You sound horribly jealous. There is no need to be so nasty.

FTR I have gone to much more lavish affairs than my son's Bar Mitzvah. It was not even at the top of the high end of doing things.

amother

Purple

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 2:01 pm

amother wrote:

You sound horribly jealous. There is no need to be so nasty.

FTR I have gone to much more lavish affairs than my son's Bar Mitzvah. It was not even at the top of the high end of doing things.

Oh dear, I'm not sure if your comment was tongue in cheek, or serious. So I'll spell it out for you just in case.

Her comment was NOT in reference to the expense and lavishness of the affairs in your community. She is appalled, and rightfully so, of the perception and attitude towards women in your community.

If you want to do a good service for many of your fellow amothers here, I repeat her request. Please publicize the community you hail from, so others can stay away.

fmt4

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 2:07 pm

amother wrote:

Thank you!!! This exactly what I was going say. I don’t give a cr*p about your lavish bar mitzvah.
But your views on women are abhorrent.

amother

Tan

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 2:20 pm

fmt4 wrote:

Thank you!!! This exactly what I was going say. I don’t give a cr*p about your lavish bar mitzvah.
But your views on women are abhorrent.

Frankly, you still sound jealous. You singled me out rather than all the other amothers who have the same point of view.

FTR, I gave my daughter what her school rules said I could. She had a very special day within community norms.

amother

Purple

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 2:24 pm

amother wrote:

Jealous of what?

amother

Royalblue

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 2:37 pm

fmt4 wrote:

Lol right? I’m confused. What am I supposed to be jealous of? I singled you out because the things you said were the worst. But don’t worry, I’m disgusted by many of the people on this thread. It isn’t just you.

Why are you disgusted? Because only you are allowed to have an opinion?

amother

Purple

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 2:42 pm

fmt4 wrote:

I'm equally scratching my head, because in this situation jealousy doesn't come into the picture. If you can afford to make a similarly lavish affair and would want it, then you would do so and jealousy is not a factor. If you cannot afford to make such a lavish affair, then aren't you glad you don't live in a community where the standards are set so high? So the only scenario left is that you are jealous of the people in that community who feel compelled to make lavish affairs when they are unable to afford it.

amother

Olive

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 2:58 pm

I have a whole bunch of girls and my youngest is a boy. We live far from most of our family members on both sides. We made an extra effort to have a beautiful bas mitzvah in a hall with catering for my three girls who are over 12 to emphasize that becoming of the age of being responsible for mitzvos is a very special occasion, regardless of gender. Sadly, many of our family members who live far away didn’t come to any of our celebrations because to them, it’s only worth travelling for a bar mitzvah or wedding.

My girls see this as a trend - they know how they all travel to each other’s simchas whether bris or bar mitzvah but they didn’t come here for their bas mitzvahs. It breaks their hearts and does make them feel like they are “less than” boys.

I just hope those of you who choose to follow this tradition of disparity between boys and girls have conversations with your girls to make sure they understand that they matter and are loved - by you at least - as much as boys.

fmt4

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 3:15 pm

amother wrote:

Unfortunately girls are going to feel lesser than in the frum community no matter what. I guess the best we can do is at least make them feel like they are equally important to their parents.

greenfire

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 5:58 pm

most of this is because it's a boys will be boys men's religion ... we women do need to step up to the plate

absolutely no bar mitzva party should be wanting a kallah ... it's absurd - save that expense [not to mention toning down these absurd weddings where the price of a dress alone cost more than a logical respectful wedding]

while perhaps variety of parties should be different for the type of kid any particular bar/bat is - girls should certainly not be left to feel less than boys

p.s. where I stand every wedding has a male & female so don't even go there

Optimystic

Fri, Apr 20 2018, 6:19 pm

amother wrote:

Why are bar mitzvahs more important and more money spent on bar mitzvahs than bat mitzvahs, I never understood this. They both are considered adults now, why should boys be more than girls? And why do people give bigger bar mitzvah monetary gifts to boys than girls? (Seforim I could understand.)

The simple (if not easy) solution is to not spend so much on bar mitzvahs. It is hard enough as it is for those of us who cannot afford expensive things. At least in the communities I have been part of, it seems the more religious the family, the less ostentatious the bar mitzvah.