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Why are Trump's affairs a legal issue?
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 22 2018, 11:03 am
octopus wrote:
Thank you for answering! So basically this is a side show at the circus.


Yes - as has been explained in a few posts, the connection with the affairs is that Cohen paid off Stormy and claims that he used his own money - which would be an illegal political contribution - which is a relatively minor offense.

However, the wire taps and the seized documents may very well prove there are corrupt business practices by Trump and his companies since Cohen was a liaison between the Trump organization and various corrupt foreign entities including the Russian oligarchs.

However, Trump is claiming that he never slept with Stormy, never heard of her and had no knowledge of the non-disclosure agreement. It is very likely that there would be some kind of paperwork that disproves Trump's claim of complete lack of knowledge.

Or to put it more bluntly, what lawyer (without discussing with his client) would mortgage his home and pay a woman $130,000 because the woman is claiming to have slept with the client without requiring any kind of proof. That would be pretty crazy as well as a possible breach of ethics by Cohen since he claimed to represent Trump in the matter - but of course the attorney for the other side is now working with the government as the whole deal is suspect on many levels.

But yes - it's a side show. What worries Trump is that the seized documents will reveal Trump's corrupt business practices since that is essentially what Cohen did for Trump.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 22 2018, 11:05 am
Amarante wrote:
I don't want to trivialize this thread because to me the issue with Trump is his assault on democratic values and possible treasonous behavior as well as the rampant corruption in terms of not even waiting until out of the White House for him, his family and aides to start making money off their affiliation with the government.

However, I have to ask in what possible universe is Melania Trump - a gold digger who posed naked and has no discernible talents other than a slim body and a good facial features deemed to be classier than Michelle Obama - a woman who graduated from Harvard Law, had a very creditable career before becoming First Lady and as First Lady involved herself actively in such important causes as children's nutrition and fitness.

That Trump had affairs is irrelevant to anyone except Melania except for the fact that the man is morally corrupt and the only importance a woman seems to have is her physical beauty - not in many years has an administration had so few women in important positions or a man in high office who has boasted about grabbing woman's genitals or observing naked female teenagers because he can.


Michelle Obama has many cringe worthy moments as first lady like the time she was briefed not to touch the queen and then repeatedly kept touching her. Why couldn't a Harvard educated lawyer follow simple protocol?

She was caught rolling her eyes a couple of times at the speaker of the house. That is simply juvenal behavior.

She claimed she was so hot that men couldn't help themselves as she walked down the street. The way she dressed to visit a catholic cathedral with her shirt exposing waaaay too much skin.

Because someone is educated does not give her class.
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 22 2018, 11:10 am
Amarante wrote:
I am not sure what part of the world you are thinking which respects Trump. He is generally considered to be a laughing stock among the western democracies and in fact, the US has ceded real leadership to Merkel and other heads of European governments.

If final proof is delivered of there being grounds for impeachment, respect for an orderly constitutional change in leadership would only bring respect back to the US. In other countries, there would be a coup or assassination.

Among all of the awful crimes against our democratic norms, Trump is like the dictator of a banana republic who wants to lock up his political opponents. There has never been any President who has gone on record that the Department of Justice and the FBI are a threat to the country and not a peep out of him regarding the actions Putin took that actually disrupted an election and attempted to impact other races - I.e. evidence shows that various state voting systems were hacked by Russian operatives. And yet NOTHING has been done by the Trump government to ensure that our electoral process will be safe in 2018 - or even 2020.


Please pay attention to what amarante is saying and keep your eyes on the ball. This isn't about affairs or stupid tweets. We owe our freedom to the fact that no one is above the law. Nobody but nobody gets to use their power as an elected official to stop an investigation into their crimes. There is not one set of rules for the people in power and one set of rules for everyone else.

There is nothing, no policy, no economic achievement or anything else worth sacrificing this basic pillar of a free and democratic society. Everything else is noise.

In other news, the president wants you to know that he most definitely did not call the attorney general "Mr Magoo" and any reports to that effect are fake news.
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Optimystic




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 22 2018, 11:13 am
Amarante wrote:
I am not sure what part of the world you are thinking which respects Trump. He is generally considered to be a laughing stock among the western democracies and in fact, the US has ceded real leadership to Merkel and other heads of European governments.

If final proof is delivered of there being grounds for impeachment, respect for an orderly constitutional change in leadership would only bring respect back to the US. In other countries, there would be a coup or assassination.

Among all of the awful crimes against our democratic norms, Trump is like the dictator of a banana republic who wants to lock up his political opponents. There has never been any President who has gone on record that the Department of Justice and the FBI are a threat to the country and not a peep out of him regarding the actions Putin took that actually disrupted an election and attempted to impact other races - I.e. evidence shows that various state voting systems were hacked by Russian operatives. And yet NOTHING has been done by the Trump government to ensure that our electoral process will be safe in 2018 - or even 2020.

Maybe I misspoke. I was conceding the point made by another poster that Mr. Trump is respected by the world. (I figured maybe she knew better, and to me, whether or not the secular world respects XYZ was not my point.) Perhaps what I should have said is that the world does not respect Mr. Trump, it respects the power he has as president of the United States.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 22 2018, 11:16 am
Trump's conduct is setting the standard and republicans need to be the ones to move forward with impeachment to fix this unprecedented disrespect for the rule of law. We have not had presidents who have made it their goal to ensure that the country loses faith in the FBI, the judicial system, the department of justice etc in the way Trump is doing now.


Again, it's not about liberals and conservatives or republicans and democrats. It's about not electing a piece of garbage to lead the country and the world and MANY republicans /conservatives get this- not sure why imamothers are failing to understand this basic point.

Again a list of republicans against Trump: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/....._2016

Are they all crazy demented liberals?
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 22 2018, 11:18 am
Squishy wrote:
Michelle Obama has many cringe worthy moments as first lady like the time she was briefed not to touch the queen and then repeatedly kept touching her. Why couldn't a Harvard educated lawyer follow simple protocol?

She was caught rolling her eyes a couple of times at the speaker of the house. That is simply juvenal behavior.

She claimed she was so hot that men couldn't help themselves as she walked down the street. The way she dressed to visit a catholic cathedral with her shirt exposing waaaay too much skin.

Because someone is educated does not give her class.


Well being a gold digger and posing nude disqualifies anyone as having "class". Very Happy

I'm not sure what conservative blog you are getting your information and beliefs from but Michelle Obama briefly touched the Queen on the back during conversation AFTER the Queen had touched Mrs. Obama. In strict royal protocol one is allowed to touch the Queen AFTER she has touched you so strictly speaking no protocol was broken.

Mrs. Obama was on vacation post Presidency and was probably dressed no differently than most tourists. It wasn't an official visit.

I have no idea when Michelle Obama claimed she was so "hot" but I can't believe if she said it, that there wasn't a larger context because the remark makes no sense for her to have blurted out.

And education - as an indication of how one has lived one's life - is certainly an indication of class and values. Let me see - a woman who worked hard in school and was admitted to a prestigious law school and then held down a high powered intellectually demanding job versus a woman who was blessed with a pretty face and height and snuck into the US to model but never really made it and then married an old guy who had divorced his first wife to marry his mistress - was known to have many affairs - appeared regularly on (among other things) the Howard Stern Show making vulgar remarks about women. Yes I will have to think long and hard about which woman is the more admirable - a difficult question indeed LOL LOL Very Happy
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 22 2018, 11:20 am
marina wrote:
Trump's conduct is setting the standard and republicans need to be the ones to move forward with impeachment to fix this unprecedented disrespect for the rule of law. We have not had presidents who have made it their goal to ensure that the country loses faith in the FBI, the judicial system, the department of justice etc in the way Trump is doing now.


Again, it's not about liberals and conservatives or republicans and democrats. It's about not electing a piece of garbage to lead the country and the world and MANY republicans /conservatives get this- not sure why imamothers are failing to understand this basic point.

Again a list of republicans against Trump: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/....._2016

Are they all crazy demented liberals?


Here's more:

https://www.ruleoflawrepublica.....t-us/
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 22 2018, 11:21 am
America's global image has sharply declined since he took office. That's because he says stupid and embarrassingly false things and insults our allies.


https://www.factcheck.org/2017.....-u-s/

https://www.usnews.com/news/be.....nking

You can see the breakdown by country here
http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/.....ship/
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fmt4




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 22 2018, 11:33 am
Squishy wrote:
Michelle Obama has many cringe worthy moments as first lady like the time she was briefed not to touch the queen and then repeatedly kept touching her. Why couldn't a Harvard educated lawyer follow simple protocol?

She was caught rolling her eyes a couple of times at the speaker of the house. That is simply juvenal behavior.

She claimed she was so hot that men couldn't help themselves as she walked down the street. The way she dressed to visit a catholic cathedral with her shirt exposing waaaay too much skin.

Because someone is educated does not give her class.


This is class though.

http://www.gq.com.au/gq+girls/.....pos=3
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 22 2018, 11:35 am
Amarante wrote:
Well being a gold digger and posing nude disqualifies anyone as having "class". Very Happy

I'm not sure what conservative blog you are getting your information and beliefs from but Michelle Obama briefly touched the Queen on the back during conversation AFTER the Queen had touched Mrs. Obama. In strict royal protocol one is allowed to touch the Queen AFTER she has touched you so strictly speaking no protocol was broken.

Mrs. Obama was on vacation post Presidency and was probably dressed no differently than most tourists. It wasn't an official visit.

I have no idea when Michelle Obama claimed she was so "hot" but I can't believe if she said it, that there wasn't a larger context because the remark makes no sense for her to have blurted out.

And education - as an indication of how one has lived one's life - is certainly an indication of class and values. Let me see - a woman who worked hard in school and was admitted to a prestigious law school and then held down a high powered intellectually demanding job versus a woman who was blessed with a pretty face and height and snuck into the US to model but never really made it and then married an old guy who had divorced his first wife to marry his mistress - was known to have many affairs - appeared regularly on (among other things) the Howard Stern Show making vulgar remarks about women. Yes I will have to think long and hard about which woman is the more admirable - a difficult question indeed LOL LOL Very Happy


No. She was not permitted to touch the queen. I got my information from UK papers. It was a breach of protocol according to the British. I read the version where she hugged the queen first.

Most tourists are not permitted to go into cathedrals with their arms uncovered. It I'd considered disrespectful.

Education and class are not synonymous. Mrs. Obama is not refined.

You seem to be under the impression that whatever one did taints them for life. Do you feel the same way about all the immigrants who broke the law to get here? Shouldn't we similarly discount Mr. Obama because of his illegal drugs?

Starting when they both became first lady, Mrs. Trump conducted herself in a way I admire more.
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fmt4




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 22 2018, 11:43 am
Squishy wrote:
No. She was not permitted to touch the queen. I got my information from UK papers. It was a breach of protocol according to the British. I read the version where she hugged the queen first.

Most tourists are not permitted to go into cathedrals with their arms uncovered. It I'd considered disrespectful.

Education and class are not synonymous. Mrs. Obama is not refined.

You seem to be under the impression that whatever one did taints them for life. Do you feel the same way about all the immigrants who broke the law to get here? Shouldn't we similarly discount Mr. Obama because of his illegal drugs?

Starting when they both became first lady, Mrs. Trump conducted herself in a way I admire more.


I’m sorry but you are not giving any examples of how Melania has conducted herself with class in the past year that she has been First Lady. If you mean that she has been largely silent and absent and has really only made the news when she showed her obvious distaste for husband by slapping his hands away or giving him dirty looks? I mean I guess that rejecting Trump does take a certain kind of class. Or maybe you mean before she became First Lady when she plagiarized Michelle Obama’s speech?

Unless you can come up with some better examples of Michelle’s lack of class then she one time uncovered her arms and another time mistakenly hugged the queen, and some better examples of Melania’s class then that she has a pretty face and nice clothes, I'm going to have to bring back the racism card. Nothing personal. I just don’t see any other explanation. It’s very possible that you don’t even realize that that is why You think Melania is classier. Your gut is telling you that she’s more refined but you’re not sure why. It’s implicit bias and you have no control over it.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 22 2018, 11:58 am
fmt4 wrote:
I’m sorry but you are not giving any examples of how Melania has conducted herself with class in the past year that she has been First Lady. If you mean that she has been largely silent and absent and has really only made the news when she showed her obvious distaste for husband by slapping his hands away or giving him dirty looks? I mean I guess that rejecting Trump does take a certain kind of class. Or maybe you mean before she became First Lady when she plagiarized Michelle Obama’s speech?

Unless you can come up with some better examples of Michelle’s lack of class then she one time uncovered her arms and another time mistakenly hugged the queen, and some better examples of Melania’s class then that she has a pretty face and nice clothes, I'm going to have to bring back the racism card. Nothing personal. I just don’t see any other explanation. It’s very possible that you don’t even realize that that is why You think Melania is classier. Your gut is telling you that she’s more refined but you’re not sure why. It’s implicit bias and you have no control over it.


Sorry Block Head,

I am a not racist.

There are black women who I admire who exude class and over came their humble beginnings. Although, I don't think Oprah is presidential material, I don't believe her youthful follies should taint her.

I give Mrs. Trump the same pass that the royal brides get. You can find pictures of them in compromising positions, but they still exude class and follow protocol.

Mrs. Obama's behavior is recent and done as a mature woman. I could easier forgive youthful indiscretions than those done by a powerful woman no matter her color.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 22 2018, 1:16 pm
Now that's odd. This thread has gone from a discussion of the raid on Michael Cohen's office to a comparison of first ladies. Yet no one is calling out posters for diverting the thread or accusing them of obfuscating. Huh. Strange, no?

You know what I think is going to happen?

I think 30-50 years from now -- when Trump, Clinton, and the entire cast of characters are dead and buried -- our kids are going to dump us in nursing homes and elder-care centers with special "2016 wards." To a casual observer, it might seem that the poor souls in these wards suffer from dementia, but a bit of observation will dispel that conclusion. The residents will have their wits about them in general, but they will spend their days engaged in endless fights over a long-forgotten election.

The aides and nurses will learn to be patient with us as they distribute meds or break up physical clashes.

"Don't worry about that noise," an aide will tell a new employee on the floor. "That's just Ms. Roberts screaming at Mr. Parker that the special counsel is a witch hunt."

"Ms. Johnson, you're gonna need to take a Xanax if you can't stop calling Ms. Clark an ignorant snowflake."

"Mr. Porter, I know you're upset, but we can't impeach President Trump. He's not President any more. Plus, he died years ago. Here. Have some applesauce."


It will be sad to see once-vibrant individuals, formerly the backbone of Imamother and countless Facebook arguments, Twitter threads, and WhatsApp groups, reduced to an old age spent hissing at one another like aged housecats. However, it's probably no better than we deserve.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 22 2018, 2:16 pm
Maybe Make Dueling Legal Again?
Impeachment is not simply a remedy for getting rid of an elected official you don't like.

There needs to be evidence of "treason, bribery, or other high crimes or misdemeanors." Given that Mueller's team has been looking for a year and the press has been looking for over two years, it seems like there's not a lot of low-hanging fruit just waiting to be picked.

Assuming Mueller's team finds something -- and if they look long enough and expand their reach far enough, they're sure to find something -- it's going to be tough to make the case that it rises to the standard set by the Constitution. Remember, President Clinton was found to have lied under oath while President . . . and the Senate did not find that it warranted removal from office. A shady business deal from years ago is going to be a tough sell.

The Problem with Glass Houses
Pinning the decline in prestige of the FBI and DOJ on President Trump is comical. The FBI completely bungled inquiries into Hillary Clinton's handling of classified material. As if that weren't enough, the then-director of the FBI has now written an earnest tell-all in which he explains that he only acted as he did because he thought Clinton would be elected. So basically, the top federal law enforcement officer admits that his actions were influenced by politics. And somehow that's Trump's fault?

Meanwhile, the FBI is taking hit after hit as various criminals who have been reported to them and ignored go on to commit more heinous crimes. While the politicization at the upper levels is in no way related to this, it has certainly impacted their image. Basically, the only possible solution is to bring back the X-Files with some truly outstanding monsters-of-the-week.

Ironically, all the efforts to prove some sort of malfeasance on Trump's part have led to further exposing malfeasance on the part of the Democratic Party. Delving into Russian connections resulted in greater scrutiny in Clinton's role in the Uranium One sale. Leaked emails proved that Sanders was not given a fair shot at the nomination. Campaign funding investigations have brought forth Donna Brazile, who is plenty mad. And now the DNC has filed a lawsuit against Trump, which means that Trump's lawyers have the right of discovery and can put witnesses under oath and take depositions. This was a major mistake for the DNC and major Democratic donors are apparently furious.

We Like You Better When You Do What We Want!
As for other countries' opinions of the United States, I worry a great deal more when they like us than when they don't. If you are a student of Machiavelli, you know that it is more important for a "prince" to be feared than loved by his allies, enemies, and subjects. Not "feared" in the sense of being wantonly cruel, but rather the knowledge that his limits are firm and that he is unafraid of enforcing them. I don't know if President Trump studied Machiavelli, but I know Peter Thiel did, and that influence comes through loud and clear.

Of course other countries loved us when we were completely submissive and undemanding! Whether it's something minor and relatively unimportant, like simply sending a bill to other NATO members or something more critical, like standing up to Chinese trade practices, they loved us as long as they could walk all over us. Now? Not so much.

Angela Merkel as the epitome of world leadership? She won a fourth term as chancellor with a weakened coalition and a significant challenge from the right-wing AfD. Her immigration policies are under constant criticism in Europe, particularly since they have ushered in new waves of anti-Semitism in Europe.

A Package Deal
I don't know anyone who wouldn't prefer a less bombastic President. But when you elect a President (or marry a husband, for that matter), you're getting a package deal. You're getting the bad with the good. Those of us who more-or-less support Trump care more about actions than words. We're willing to put up with some of the over-the-top things he says because we have observed that when it comes to action, he doesn't actually do crazy things.

Anyone who can't find anything positive about Trump's presidency is simply not following the news or is literally delusional. Bringing North Korea to the barganing table (even if they're lying, which they are) isn't a good thing? Getting the Chinese to reduce even a handful of tariffs isn't a good thing? Getting Saudi Arabia on board regarding Iran isn't a good thing? Reiterating President Clinton's immigration platform isn't a good thing?

Comedienne Roseanne Barr got it right when she appeared on Jimmy Kimmel and chastised him for going too far with anti-Trump material. She said, basically, that the majority of Americans, even those who didn't vote for Trump, want the President to succeed. They don't want the plane to crash just to prove the pilot is incompetent. She got tremendous applause from the studio audience and incredible feedback on social media, etc. Yes, yes, I know. She's just a silly celebrity and none of you pay attention to silly celebrities. But she captured a sentiment that resonates with a lot of people in the U.S.
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sushilover




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 22 2018, 2:25 pm
Fox wrote:
Now that's odd. This thread has gone from a discussion of the raid on Michael Cohen's office to a comparison of first ladies. Yet no one is calling out posters for diverting the thread or accusing them of obfuscating. Huh. Strange, no?

You know what I think is going to happen?

I think 30-50 years from now -- when Trump, Clinton, and the entire cast of characters are dead and buried -- our kids are going to dump us in nursing homes and elder-care centers with special "2016 wards." To a casual observer, it might seem that the poor souls in these wards suffer from dementia, but a bit of observation will dispel that conclusion. The residents will have their wits about them in general, but they will spend their days engaged in endless fights over a long-forgotten election.

The aides and nurses will learn to be patient with us as they distribute meds or break up physical clashes.

"Don't worry about that noise," an aide will tell a new employee on the floor. "That's just Ms. Roberts screaming at Mr. Parker that the special counsel is a witch hunt."

"Ms. Johnson, you're gonna need to take a Xanax if you can't stop calling Ms. Clark an ignorant snowflake."

"Mr. Porter, I know you're upset, but we can't impeach President Trump. He's not President any more. Plus, he died years ago. Here. Have some applesauce."


It will be sad to see once-vibrant individuals, formerly the backbone of Imamother and countless Facebook arguments, Twitter threads, and WhatsApp groups, reduced to an old age spent hissing at one another like aged housecats. However, it's probably no better than we deserve.


I'm literally laughing out loud!
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 22 2018, 2:34 pm
For those of you who have any interest in comparing the Obamas to the Trumps, look no further than the role of Louis Farrakhan.

Farrakhan, for any of you who are unfamiliar with the name, is the head of the Nation of Islam, and regularly spews some of the most anti-Semitic garbage out there. But because he commands a significant voting bloc and provides civic leadership within the African-American community, he's given a pass by AA politicians who want votes.

It seems that both President and Mrs. Obama took multiple smiling pictures with Farrakhan, but these were deliberately withheld by the photographer during the Obama administration because he knew that it would be harmful to the Obamas to be associated with Farrakhan.

In addition, CA Reps. Maxine Waters and Barbara Lee, IL Rep. Danny Davis, IN Rep. Andre Carson, MN Rep. Keith Ellison, NY Rep. Gregory Meeks and TX Rep. Al Green have all attended meetings with Farrakhan while serving in Congress. The DNC has not called for these representatives to repudiate Farrakhan or his philosophies.

I was willing to overlook Jeremiah Wright, but the associations with Farrakhan send a clear message from the Democratic Party to Jews in the U.S.
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