Home

S/O Why is adult FRUM literature awful?
  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next  Last >>
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> The Social Scene -> Reading Room

Report offensive ad

View latest: 24h 48h 72h


SuperWify









  


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 11:33 am
Don’t mean to be so pessimistic but it’s really hard to keep to my kabalah of not reading non Jewish books (haha I wish).

Jewish books are just so... filtered.

For example, you read a whole novel about a couple having marital issues and in the end you read how they resume their “business” partnership happily ever after but are left wondering if you missed half the story because it lacked the essential marriage component called love. (Ok excuse the run on.)

Or you read about a kid that goes off the derech and does... alcohol (the only kosher bad thing?!)

I can bring many examples. You can too.

I understand the frum publishers have standards but to this point?

The alternative is non Jewish books of course but the gap between the two literary worlds is enormous.
Back to top

das









  


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 11:35 am
Because the pay is too low to justify talented ppls efforts.
Back to top

Raisin









  


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 11:39 am
victorian literature doesn't really mention s-x or even pregnancy yet there are many great victiorian novels. (I think they do kiss and lots of falling in love)

But imo its a numbers game. Thousands of secular novels are published each year. Probably only a few hundred are good. And even the bad ones are heavily edited.

A few dozen (maybe not even that many) frum novels are published per year. How many will be good?
Back to top

amother




Bronze


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 11:42 am
It's true - the market is tiny so there's very little money to be earned. Also, publishers have such rigid "religious" standards (catering to the strictest, most insulated groups) that it's pretty much impossible to get down to the deepest parts of the soul. The main audience for these books is readers who've never been exposed to great literature, so they don't know to demand better.

Things are improving, but the constraints still exist.
Back to top

amother




Teal


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 11:44 am
I don’t think it’s a numbers game
My father translated a book that was banned by rabbanim because it was the true story of a young girl in a convent during the holocaust who let the priests baptize her to save her life. Really were they afraid someone would read the book and convert to Christianity?
Back to top

amother




Bisque


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 11:50 am
I just posted this in the other thread but Every Man a Slave by Sender Zeyv is a fascinating book that is unlike any other frum literature.
Back to top

SuperWify









  


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 11:51 am
amother wrote:
It's true - the market is tiny so there's very little money to be earned. Also, publishers have such rigid "religious" standards (catering to the strictest, most insulated groups) that it's pretty much impossible to get down to the deepest parts of the soul. The main audience for these books is readers who've never been exposed to great literature, so they don't know to demand better.

Things are improving, but the constraints still exist.


Well that’s my question. Why do they cater only to the most religious group???
Back to top

SuperWify









  


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 11:53 am
amother wrote:
I just posted this in the other thread but Every Man a Slave by Sender Zeyv is a fascinating book that is unlike any other frum literature.



Yes it is! That and Sun Inide Rain by M Bassara and The Betrayal by M Kenan. A few EG Reich books.

That’s it.
Back to top

Maya









  


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 11:57 am
Because anyone who is talented enough will try to cater to a greater audience.
Back to top

amother




Ginger


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 11:58 am
SuperWify wrote:
Well that’s my question. Why do they cater only to the most religious group???


Because the less religious groups allow secular literature Laughing

I write, and I hate writing for Jewish publications largely because of the constraints on the subject matter. While times definitely are a'changin, and you'll find previously-forbidden topics mentioned (even in passing/shallowly), it's still difficult and frustrating to write for a frum audience. Not to mention the terrible pay...

I've written for frum publications for publicity purposes, but that's about it. I write for private clients instead and am much happier. It's my dream to publish a novel for the general public one day when my kids are older - I would not consider publishing anything with a frum publisher.

What frustrates me most is that people seem to think that frum Jews need writing dumbed down for them. I have written articles for clients who have literally told me to change some words because the vocabulary was too advanced (as in, he was unable to pronounce the word Rolling Eyes ). My philosophy is, if someone reads a word they don't know, they should go look it up and learn something! When you hear someone mispronounce a word, it means they learned it from reading - and that's impressive.

So for now I remain a frum writer who won't write for frum publications, let alone frum publishers.
Back to top

FranticFrummie









  


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 12:35 pm
This is why I prefer to stick to the classics.

"Daniel Deronda" is one of the greatest Jewish books ever written, very clean, and full of romance. We need more writers like that, but as someone mentioned upthread, people don't read the classics anymore, so they don't know what good writing is.
Back to top

Amarante









  


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 12:36 pm
The odds of a really talented author writing exclusively for a small subset of people with very circumscribed permitted parameters is almost non-existent. A talented artist wants to deal with the human condition in a realistic manner.

Someone posted Victorian novels - they dealt with the human condition honestly which is why the great writers - Tolstoi, Dickens, Austen (pre-Victorian really), Dosteovsky are still read and admired.

Most modern literary fiction is not prurient - I.e. doesn't treat s*ex for the sake of shock but only as it is a part of life and there are many excellent modern books that deal with adult themes and interests but aren't s*xually suggestive or descriptive. I am not sure why you need to discard all secular books because many of them illuminate the human condition with nothing that would offend anyone - for example, a recent widely read book is Ask Alice which is about a woman suffering from early onset AZ told from her perspective as she slowly deteriorates from being a college professor to mental oblivion.

As an adult, I am bored to tears by so called romance novels because they are silly and bear no relationship to real people and real events and I would toss frum literature into the same basket as being a waste of time and in no way providing me with any kind of mental sustenance.
Back to top

byisrael









  


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 2:20 pm
In hebrew M kenan has 4 books in The Betrayal series (Istarak, Mehalalel , Yehozavad I, Yehozavad II) I really liked all of them because the characters where all developed.

I think part of the issue also has to do with the fact that much of the literature is translated and some of the beuty of the writing is lost in translation ( I read harry potter in english and hebrew and the english was MUCH better).


Last edited by byisrael on Tue, Apr 24 2018, 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

amother




Violet


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 2:33 pm
I am writing a book about my experiences In a a difficult marriage. The author who is helping me has shared examples of how nitpicky the publishers are.
They edited out instances of using texting in her last novel!
I am trying to figure out how to reach a large audience but can't determine how to publish my book in a way that will reach others without it being watered down.
I want to include details about the intimate relationship, but I know that will likely limit the people who read it and definitely will limit who the publisher could be
Back to top

fmt4









  


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 2:47 pm
Amarante wrote:
The odds of a really talented author writing exclusively for a small subset of people with very circumscribed permitted parameters is almost non-existent. A talented artist wants to deal with the human condition in a realistic manner.

Someone posted Victorian novels - they dealt with the human condition honestly which is why the great writers - Tolstoi, Dickens, Austen (pre-Victorian really), Dosteovsky are still read and admired.

Most modern literary fiction is not prurient - I.e. doesn't treat s*ex for the sake of shock but only as it is a part of life and there are many excellent modern books that deal with adult themes and interests but aren't s*xually suggestive or descriptive. I am not sure why you need to discard all secular books because many of them illuminate the human condition with nothing that would offend anyone - for example, a recent widely read book is Ask Alice which is about a woman suffering from early onset AZ told from her perspective as she slowly deteriorates from being a college professor to mental oblivion.

As an adult, I am bored to tears by so called romance novels because they are silly and bear no relationship to real people and real events and I would toss frum literature into the same basket as being a waste of time and in no way providing me with any kind of mental sustenance.

This.
Victorian novels can be soooo s-xy without mentioning anything explicit. Jane Eyre anyone?? Heavy censorship existed at the time but a good writer can allude to themes in an implicit way.
Frum books aren’t bad because they are censored. They’re bad because the writers are bad writers.

Also, the book is called Still Alice. Wink


Last edited by fmt4 on Tue, Apr 24 2018, 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

amother




Gold


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 2:47 pm
-Frum novelists make very little money off their books.
-As long as a novel is somewhat decent frum publishers will take it..I.e. its not a competitive market, writers don’t have to be the best of the best in order to find an interested publisher. Just decent is good enough...which is why I haven’t read a frum novel in over a decade.
-frum publishers cater to right wing readers who won’t buy secular books, therefore they must adhere to the strict standards of their consumers or they’ll be out of business
Back to top

Chayalle









  


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 3:00 pm
amother wrote:
I don’t think it’s a numbers game
My father translated a book that was banned by rabbanim because it was the true story of a young girl in a convent during the holocaust who let the priests baptize her to save her life. Really were they afraid someone would read the book and convert to Christianity?


There was a book Behind the Walls that had that situation and was published by frum publishers. Not sure why your father's book was banned.
Back to top

amother




Cyan


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 3:06 pm
byisrael wrote:
In hebrew M kenan has 4 books in The Betrayal series (Istarak, Mehalalel , Yehozavad I, Yehozavad II) I really liked all of them because the characters where all developed.

I think part of the issue also has to do with the fact that much of the literature is translated and some of the beuty of the writing is lost in translation ( I read harry potter in english and hebrew and the english was MUCH better).


Do you know when the last 2 in the series are going to be translated to English?
Back to top

keym









  


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 3:11 pm
Most frum books at least fiction start off as serials. They tend to be more drawn out and written differently than a regular novel. Also they go through intense criticism with a years worth of comments. Though I believe the hope is that readers will buy the book by being hooked into the serial.
Back to top

octopus









  


Post  Tue, Apr 24 2018, 3:13 pm
Don't read frum novels. I only read non-fiction.
Back to top
  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next  Last >> Recent Topics

Page 1 of 6 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> The Social Scene -> Reading Room

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Where to get terry bath robe (adult and kids)
by seeker
17 Wed, Nov 14 2018, 1:02 pm View last post
Harry Potter Frum Fanfiction: Yehuda (Anthony) Goldstein
by amother
262 Sat, Nov 10 2018, 10:00 pm View last post
Experienced Adult OT in J'lem 2 Tue, Nov 06 2018, 8:40 am View last post
ISO Instagram links of frum kitchen/home decorators
by amother
13 Mon, Nov 05 2018, 2:27 pm View last post
by nchr
Awful Drier Noise - How to Turn Off?!
by amother
2 Sun, Nov 04 2018, 9:01 am View last post

Jump to:  





Report offensive ad