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S/O Why is adult FRUM literature awful?
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trixx




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 04 2018, 10:52 pm
gingertop wrote:
I think you're referring to "Nothing But the Truth" by Leah Friedman.

The other book about this issue was "Yesterday's Child" by Ruth Benjamin


This! What I was talking about
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Ravenclaw




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 04 2018, 11:04 pm
mandr wrote:
It's really like a build your own recipe for Jewish books:

Choose a character/characters:
1) single girl in shidduchim
2) couple in marital distress
3) someone who is OTD
4) baal/baalas teshuva

Choose a setting:
1) Tristate area
2) Israel

Choose a main crisis:
1) shidduch crisis
2) OTD crisis
3) shalom bayis problems
4) social issues
5) someone suffers from a bad disease

Choose a resolution:
1) character finds a shidduch and gets married
2) couple gets therapy
3) OTD person gets back on track
4) baal/baalas teshuva learns to integrate
5) treatment works

End result: Happily ever after!!!


THISSSSS!!!!! Rolling Laughter
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 4:00 am
trixx wrote:
Can't remember the title but years ago I read a book about a girl who became baal teshuva and dated a very nice guy who then found out he was a total mamzer. Book ends with them breaking up.


SuperWify wrote:
If I remember correctly in the end of “Yesterday’s Child” the boy finds out his mom had a get and he’s not a mamzer 🙄


Until I read the second post, I assumed that mamzer was being used figuratively, not literally. Like he acted very nice before the wedding but that completely changed afterwards ...
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 4:05 am
mandr wrote:
It's really like a build your own recipe for Jewish books:

Choose a character/characters:
1) single girl in shidduchim
2) couple in marital distress
3) someone who is OTD
4) baal/baalas teshuva

Choose a setting:
1) Tristate area
2) Israel

Choose a main crisis:
1) shidduch crisis
2) OTD crisis
3) shalom bayis problems
4) social issues
5) someone suffers from a bad disease

Choose a resolution:
1) character finds a shidduch and gets married
2) couple gets therapy
3) OTD person gets back on track
4) baal/baalas teshuva learns to integrate
5) treatment works

End result: Happily ever after!!!

In Orwell's 1984, mind-numbing books, newspapers. films, and music are generated by a machine called a kaleidoscope which I creates them by recombining parts of other works.

'What are these books like?' said Winston curiously.

'Oh, ghastly rubbish. They're boring, really. They only have six plots, but they swap them round a bit. Of course I was only on the kaleidoscopes. I was never in the Rewrite Squad. I'm not literary, dear -- not even enough for that.'
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wif




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 4:08 am
If I may present The Case for Happily Ever After:

When I was younger, I only read Big Fat Important Books. Most of those books had terribly sad endings because that is part of what made it so important, you see. Because realism, etc, all happy families are the same, all unhappy ones are different and all that jazz. But nowadays, I love me a good happily ever after. As long as it makes sense to the story, of course, not squished and forced, I no longer have the emotions to waste on that horrible hollow feeling that comes when I close the book on a sad or unfair ending. Realism be darned: life is hard and sad enough. I need my made-up characters at least to be happy.
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amother
Goldenrod


 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 7:57 am
I have no problem with happily ever after books. I just like my reading material to have interesting, three dimensional characters, realistic dialogue,a plot that doesn't strain credibility too much, and readable prose.
There are a few frum books that fit that bill, but not many.
What I find lately is that many frum writers seem to dig out a thesaurus and try to utilize as many big words and "interesting" verbs as possible. Who wants to read about characters who constantly smirk, squeal, chatter, giggle, roll their shoulders, raise their eyebrows, and whatnot....Why can't characters just "say" their dialogue like people do in real life, lol.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 8:04 am
mandr wrote:
It's really like a build your own recipe for Jewish books:

Choose a character/characters:
1) single girl in shidduchim
2) couple in marital distress
3) someone who is OTD
4) baal/baalas teshuva

Choose a setting:
1) Tristate area
2) Israel

Choose a main crisis:
1) shidduch crisis
2) OTD crisis
3) shalom bayis problems
4) social issues
5) someone suffers from a bad disease

Choose a resolution:
1) character finds a shidduch and gets married
2) couple gets therapy
3) OTD person gets back on track
4) baal/baalas teshuva learns to integrate
5) treatment works

End result: Happily ever after!!!


Lol! I've always said that frum novels are like a bingo game (or to make it more fun, a drinking game). You get a chip for each time someone:

- "pats her sheitel" or checks it in the mirror. Often, the word "sheitel" is the only Jewish thing about these novels (other than the characters names).

- Cries into her trusted, tear soaked tehillim that has been her beloved companion.

- Narrows her eyes at someone. I dont get this one. I read a LOT, all the time. I am a bibliophile. This is a phrase that only appears in frum novels. Its bizarre.

- Says things like "Why oh why" and other such phrases that are cringe worthy to read. Who says that in real life?

- She "pushed food around her plate" at some kind of fancy restaurant, typically while avoiding someone, often that someone is her husband but can also be any other random person who is also there.

- Has a dilemma that could have been solved within 3 pages if they would only TELL THE PERSON what the issue is. No one is ever honest in these stories.

- Introduces a character with a ton of back story and carries them through 3 chapters, only to disappear and have no consequence in the story at all. These sub plots add chapters, sure. But do nothing other than make the story needlessly confusing.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 9:59 am
mandr wrote:
It's really like a build your own recipe for Jewish books:


A few years back Mishpacha had a Jewish thriller Purim spoof.
Every time I read the back of one of these actual books, I try, very hard, to detect the difference ;-D
But some of them are very good fun!
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 10:01 am
watergirl wrote:
Lol! I've always said that frum novels are like a bingo game (or to make it more fun, a drinking game). You get a chip for each time someone:

- "pats her sheitel" or checks it in the mirror. Often, the word "sheitel" is the only Jewish thing about these novels (other than the characters names).

- Cries into her trusted, tear soaked tehillim that has been her beloved companion.

- Narrows her eyes at someone. I dont get this one. I read a LOT, all the time. I am a bibliophile. This is a phrase that only appears in frum novels. Its bizarre.


And I don't know if I've ever read characters muttering outside of Alexander McCall Smith.
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allthingsblue




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 10:07 am
wif wrote:
If I may present The Case for Happily Ever After:

When I was younger, I only read Big Fat Important Books. Most of those books had terribly sad endings because that is part of what made it so important, you see. Because realism, etc, all happy families are the same, all unhappy ones are different and all that jazz. But nowadays, I love me a good happily ever after. As long as it makes sense to the story, of course, not squished and forced, I no longer have the emotions to waste on that horrible hollow feeling that comes when I close the book on a sad or unfair ending. Realism be darned: life is hard and sad enough. I need my made-up characters at least to be happy.


Agree.
I just read The Fixer by Bernard Melamud and came away with the feeling, "who actually LIKES reading this stuff?"
The book is well written but terribly terribly depressing.
I'm the type of person who must finish any book I start, so I finished it, but I skimmed/skipped through a lot- it was terribly depressing. I do understand the importance of such books, as they shed light on history, but they are not my taste.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 10:16 am
allthingsblue wrote:
Agree.
I just read The Fixer by Bernard Melamud and came away with the feeling, "who actually LIKES reading this stuff?"
The book is well written but terribly terribly depressing.
I'm the type of person who must finish any book I start, so I finished it, but I skimmed/skipped through a lot- it was terribly depressing. I do understand the importance of such books, as they shed light on history, but they are not my taste.


And I read one book by a certain author and realized why I disliked it: there was not a single character I could bring myself to like. Absolutely no likeable characters. That was the first and the last of his books that I read.
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 10:23 am
allthingsblue wrote:
Agree.
I just read The Fixer by Bernard Melamud and came away with the feeling, "who actually LIKES reading this stuff?"
The book is well written but terribly terribly depressing.
I'm the type of person who must finish any book I start, so I finished it, but I skimmed/skipped through a lot- it was terribly depressing. I do understand the importance of such books, as they shed light on history, but they are not my taste.


Some of Bernard Malamud’s short stories may be more to your liking.
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allthingsblue




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 10:51 am
sequoia wrote:
Some of Bernard Malamud’s short stories may be more to your liking.


Thanks. I'll check them out.
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Simple1




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 11:03 am
watergirl wrote:


- Introduces a character with a ton of back story and carries them through 3 chapters, only to disappear and have no consequence in the story at all. These sub plots add chapters, sure. But do nothing other than make the story needlessly confusing.


This might be a problem with some serialized novels. But some authors are very good in this way. I remember the Libby Lazewnik books I used to read - every character and almost every sentence had a purpose in the plot.

I also enjoyed those Israeli spy thrillers like Black Out and Spiders Web.

And I agree with some other posters - life is stressful enough. When I read, I want happy endings.
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amother
Gold


 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 11:44 am
[quote="watergirl"]

- Has a dilemma that could have been solved within 3 pages if they would only TELL THE PERSON what the issue is. No one is ever honest in these stories.


This lol!!!!!
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 12:02 pm
Simple1 wrote:
This might be a problem with some serialized novels. But some authors are very good in this way. I remember the Libby Lazewnik books I used to read - every character and almost every sentence had a purpose in the plot.

I also enjoyed those Israeli spy thrillers like Black Out and Spiders Web.

And I agree with some other posters - life is stressful enough. When I read, I want happy endings.


I like happy endings. But realistic. I love Etka Gittel Schwartz for that reason. Her books end hopeful, optimistic, but everything is not nearly wrapped in a perfect bow.
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amother
Lime


 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 12:08 pm
watergirl wrote:
Lol! I've always said that frum novels are like a bingo game (or to make it more fun, a drinking game). You get a chip for each time someone:

- "pats her sheitel" or checks it in the mirror. Often, the word "sheitel" is the only Jewish thing about these novels (other than the characters names).

- Cries into her trusted, tear soaked tehillim that has been her beloved companion.

- Narrows her eyes at someone. I dont get this one. I read a LOT, all the time. I am a bibliophile. This is a phrase that only appears in frum novels. Its bizarre.

- Says things like "Why oh why" and other such phrases that are cringe worthy to read. Who says that in real life?

- She "pushed food around her plate" at some kind of fancy restaurant, typically while avoiding someone, often that someone is her husband but can also be any other random person who is also there.

- Has a dilemma that could have been solved within 3 pages if they would only TELL THE PERSON what the issue is. No one is ever honest in these stories.

- Introduces a character with a ton of back story and carries them through 3 chapters, only to disappear and have no consequence in the story at all. These sub plots add chapters, sure. But do nothing other than make the story needlessly confusing.


Watergirl, you need to make this post a challenge:

Amother who writes the best short novel using all of the above wins a stunning sheitel or a trip to Israel by herself or 6 months of therapy. (I was trying to choose prizes amothers would love to win.)
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 12:13 pm
amother wrote:
Watergirl, you need to make this post a challenge:

Amother who writes the best short novel using all of the above wins a stunning sheitel or a trip to Israel by herself or 6 months of therapy. (I was trying to choose prizes amothers would love to win.)


Better yet, use all of my frum novel bingo items and mandr's items. Then we can send it to feldheim.
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WitchKitty




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 12:17 pm
amother wrote:
Watergirl, you need to make this post a challenge:

Amother who writes the best short novel using all of the above wins a stunning sheitel or a trip to Israel by herself or 6 months of therapy. (I was trying to choose prizes amothers would love to win.)

You mean the worst.😜
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 12:18 pm
amother wrote:
Watergirl, you need to make this post a challenge:

Amother who writes the best short novel using all of the above wins a stunning sheitel or a trip to Israel by herself or 6 months of therapy. (I was trying to choose prizes amothers would love to win.)


OK, challenge has been issued. See you there!

https://www.imamother.com/foru.....38094
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