S/O Why is adult FRUM literature awful?

amother

Lemon

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 7:40 pm

amother wrote:

I don't mean to be rude, but sometimes people lack an understanding that frum
literature should be just that- frum literature. When writers cross certain boundaries, it is
non -frum literature. Two people I know read fiction by non-frum authors. They simply have their heads on straight and do not expect this kind of entertainment from the frum publishing houses.

how do you define 'frum literature' and why does that mean it shouldn't be entertaining?

amother

Puce

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 7:48 pm

Raisin wrote:

I think there is interest in the wider secular Jewish world for novels from a frum perspective...think of the novels by Naomi Ragen, Tova Mirvis and others, all published by secular publishing houses.

Before I got married I read a couple of Naomi Ragen's books, and I was pretty horrified. I read all types of secular literature, so I was exposed to just about everything, but somehow the fact that this was being written about frum people and there were so many twisted scenarios that didn't sound like any frum people I knew, just made it feel very wrong.

I was also pretty upset, because the friend who introduced me to her books would never read not frum books, and to think that this was what this extremely sheltered girl was reading was pretty horrifying. It turned out a few of her similarly sheltered friends thought Naomi Ragen was a frum author, or at least claimed they thought so and so they were all reading her books.

amother

Ecru

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 8:33 pm

amother wrote:

I found that books by Rachel Pomerantz (Wildflower, A Time To Rend A Time To Sew) had very well-developed characters.

I was hoping someone would mention Rachel Pomerantz. Her early books are amazing.

She even manages romance in her beautiful, understated way.
In As Mountains Around Jerusalem, Bob is too frum to look at his date until his Rabbi tells him he must. When he meets her eyes for the first time, the author simply describes his sharp intake of breath. She doesn't need to describe anything more.
I think it's one of the most romantic lines I have ever read.
I've got to get my hands on it again

amother

Tangerine

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 8:53 pm

I must also mention Etka Gittel Schwartz, whose writing is extremely vivid and employs adjectives, onomatopoeia and punctuation to glorious effect. Plot lines are solid, and characters are not flat.

As well, Meir Uri Gottesman, whose adult novels (especially Morning Star) are exquisite. (Some may dislike his strong use of tangible spirituality as a main theme, but I did not find it overdone.) They mix historic fiction and very colorful characters for an extremely enjoyable and rereadable result. (Rereadability is my primary criteria for book quality.)

amother

Powderblue

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 8:55 pm

amother wrote:

She is a frum author.

amother

Forestgreen

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 10:07 pm

I read Naomi Ragen's book "The Sacrifice of Tamar" and was completely unimpressed. The characters were flat and unbelievable and the situations they found themselves in contrived. I won't waste my time with her other books.

Frum literature is often bad because there can't be honesty about feelings and situations. My favorite genre, memoirs, cant be done properly at all.

If you're looking for a good read, I just read Mao's Last Dancer. Wow.

PinkFridge

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 10:16 pm

Maya wrote:

Because anyone who is talented enough will try to cater to a greater audience.

Ruchama King Feuerman wrote some elegant books geared to the greater audience (as well as some wonderful children's books for the frum audience). Rachelle Majer Krich wrote a mystery series geared to the greater audience.
I'm sure there are others out there but not too many come to mind. (Folks, please don't mention Faye Kellerman. The frum audience was never a hava mina for her. I'm talking about people who come from and know this world and its literature and options well enough to try something else.)
(And I am in no way bashing FK. I heard her speak. She's engaging and I'd love to have her for a neighbor, but she's not relevant to this discussion.)

PinkFridge

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 10:19 pm

byisrael wrote:

In hebrew M kenan has 4 books in The Betrayal series (Istarak, Mehalalel , Yehozavad I, Yehozavad II) I really liked all of them because the characters where all developed.

Why have only two of them been translated????
(Note: Sequoia did an elegant evisceration of this series somewhere on this forum. I still love it though.)

Simple1

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 10:20 pm

amother wrote:

I remember reading Wildflower and (in my young sheltered mind at the time) it felt very romantic.

PinkFridge

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 10:20 pm

keym wrote:

Most frum books at least fiction start off as serials. They tend to be more drawn out and written differently than a regular novel. Also they go through intense criticism with a years worth of comments. Though I believe the hope is that readers will buy the book by being hooked into the serial.

Anyone know when we'll see EG Schwartz's last two Binah serials come out in book form?

farm

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 11:09 pm

As a reader, it seems to me that Frum authors feel pressured (by publishing houses?) to include hashkafa or various references to Hashem in their fiction stories. I think that is another factor that makes these novels seem silly and babyish. I want an engaging plot with interesting characters. I strongly prefer not to read bad language, bedroom scenes, or extreme violence. But I'm NOT interested in a mussar schmooze in middle of my novel! Why can't frum literature simply have characters who happen to be Jewish (or not! I don't care!)? Why does it end up being such a major factor in the story?

amother

Lemon

Tue, Apr 24 2018, 11:14 pm

farm wrote:

what makes is 'frum literature"?

amother

Powderblue

Wed, Apr 25 2018, 12:04 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I just read through part of one book, but none of the people she portrays have the slightest thing in common with the frum people that I know in MY world.... shrug... maybe we just live in different worlds.

That’s not what literature is about.

byisrael

Wed, Apr 25 2018, 1:24 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Why have only two of them been translated????
(Note: Sequoia did an elegant evisceration of this series somewhere on this forum. I still love it though.)

I went and looked for that thread
https://www.imamother.com/foru.....rt=40

I agree with a lot of seqoia's points, and still believe it was one of the best jewish fiction.
-The hebrew was MUCH MUCH better, the way she used language was wonderful and did not go over in the translation.
- The lack of historical accuracy bugged me as well, but she was IN HIGH SCHOOL when she wrote Isterak - I wonder if it was done now that piece would be better.
- I found the female characters in Yehozavad to be both strong and vulnerable, but in Mahalalell that was lacking...

Sequoia wrote;

For one, only the rulers and aristocracy were exclusively Jews; the general population was Xtian, Muslim, and pagan as well. It was a multi-religious society. It wasn't a theocracy. The ruling class followed Judaism, but they never appeared to impose it on their subjects. I am reading a history book right now and the author makes the persuasive (to me) argument that the Khazar elite chose Judaism because they didn't want to be subservient to either Mecca or Constantinople.

I Yehozavad there was more of a pagan population, but like I said the lack of historical accuracy was ANNOYING. The argument the the Khazar chose judaism to avoid both xtian and muslim influence doesn't speak to me because a) they could have stayed pagan b) who would convert them (though maybe they where karaim- that would explain the conversion).