What does "quiet enjoyment" mean for a tenant?

amother

Salmon

Tue, May 01 2018, 8:08 am

The thread about kids playing loudly outside made me wonder, as a long time tenant and new homeowner... its a standard clause in tenant leases that you may live in your rented home with "quiet enjoyment", meaning that you may not blast music at any hour, keep the noise down in general, in an apartment you cant stomp and must make the most effort to walk quietly... etc. So I would imagine that these kids would not be allowed to play loudly in a rented home, be it apartment or full house. Right?

As a renter, every single time I dare to nail something into the wall, I get a text from the next door homeowner (a semi detached and I rent, she owns) to stop hammering. Even if its 5:00pm and no one is sleeping. I once stayed home from work to do repairs when I knew the next door neighbors would be at work, thinking it was considerate of me, and planned to work on the house during the day time. Her house is usually empty at that time. Apparently she was home that day, working from home! She told me to stop. But the day that she had repairs done, she can start early in the morning and let it go until after 9 at night? Thats ok?

Where does "quiet enjoyment" start and end?
In another house that I rented, my husband and I were playing guitar together and the landlord came and told us it was too loud. Not electric guitar, no amp. So I stopped and just DH played. Still too loud. I cant practice my instrument at 7:00pm?

Another time, it was Purim and we had ONE family for a seuda. Under 10 people total. Still got complaints. No one was jumping.

But a home owner can fill their homes to the gills with guests and of course its fine! My neighbor who didnt like my hammering mezuzas at 2:00pm has vorts, kiddushes, yartzeit kiddishes all the time. And she doesnt like when I had a yartzeit seuda and had 10 people over. She told the landlord on me and he told me that I was in violation of my lease.

Another time I made a sheep's head for rosh hashana and the landlord got complaints about the smell. I had my vent on and windows open to minimize it. That was apparently also not considered quiet enjoyment because it bothered people. So now I cant cook one dish for rosh hashana?

To be clear, I am combining experiences here with many different landlords. Not just one guy.

So if I am renting the home, its as if the place is mine for all intents and purposes, right? Why does a home owner have the right to live with "loud enjoyment" but the renter isn't? Why is the home owner able to enjoy a quality of life that the renter isnt entitled to?

Yes, I consider allowing my kids to play loudly outside (just my kids, not with 13 of their closest friends) if they want to? Kids are meant to scream sometimes. Like if I filled a kiddy pool with water - they will scream with glee. The renters kids are just as gleeful as the homeowners, no? OF COURSE I wont let them do it in the morning or late at night.

So is the homeowner allowed to enjoy their home as loudly as they want, but the renter isnt?
Thoughts please.

flowerpower

Tue, May 01 2018, 9:03 am

I can't believe what I just read! How can your neighbor run your life? Who gives her the right to tell you not to do repairs during the day or at 5 pm? Such chutzpah!!!!! I rented a few times and never got treated any different then a homeowner. My lease said nothing about noise( I think).

amother

Salmon

Tue, May 01 2018, 9:25 am

flowerpower wrote:

The post was actually a conglomeration of multiple neighbors who really resent renters. I understand wanting neighbor stability. We are good neighbors and considerate. Its the worst when the neighbor IS the landlord or related to the landlord. I’ve had that also.

greenfire

Tue, May 01 2018, 9:50 am

there's common sense not to be noisy too early or too late ... this sounds like you live around a bunch of self-centered noisy people who have zero reciprocity

amother

Wheat

Tue, May 01 2018, 9:52 am

I looked this up recently. In NYC you're allowed to do construction from 7 am till 6 pm and weekends 10 am to 4 pm. I thought it was later, but in any case, you should be allowed to nail the wall and do whatever you need to do. Obviously if it is really loud like lawn mower, I think there are more laws about how loud it can be. If it's possible to be considerate, then yes, but middle of a weekday or Sunday, I think it's fine to make some reasonable amount of noise during those hours. The stories you describe scream of hypocrisy and I wouldn't let a neighbor like that dictate my life. If she wanted quiet for one afternoon because she wasn't feeling well that's ok. But if every time you want to make noise it's not ok, but when she wants to make noise it is ok, I would ignore her. On shabbos though, if you can keep kids quiet if they want to nap, I understand that request, as long as her kids do the same. The people who complained were your landlord or other tenants or next door neighbor?

amother

Salmon

Tue, May 01 2018, 10:00 am

I’m not in NY. My post was really getting at - what does “quiet enjoyment” mean, and why do homeowners have the right to make more noise than renters?

amother

Burgundy

Tue, May 01 2018, 10:03 am

At one time both my neighbor and I rented.
Ostensibly we are both allowed quiet enjoyment.
He would blast his TV at 4 in the morning and complain about my baby's colicky 8am screaming.
We would keep our kids quiet Shabbos afternoon from 1:30-3 to be complained that they wanted to sleep from 4-6.
I have a vivid memory of laying on the couch the day of my d&c while my toddler was playing lego on the rug and getting a threatening phone call at 3pm.

amother

Wheat

Tue, May 01 2018, 10:17 am

amother wrote:

I’m not in NY. My post was really getting at - what does “quiet enjoyment” mean, and why do homeowners have the right to make more noise than renters?

They don't have the right to make more noise than tenants. Quiet enjoyment not sure how that is legally defined but putting a nail in a wall at 5 pm is fine.

ra_mom

Tue, May 01 2018, 10:53 am

Quiet enjoyment is open to interpretation.
But those neighbors just sound mean. Living in a multi unit property means that you have to be ok with certain levels of noise and it's not fair that they're making your life miserable.

yo'ma

Tue, May 01 2018, 12:17 pm

Where I live there's a law no loud work between 2 and I think 4. I know this because someone who was working by us stopped between those times. Of course there is the morning and evening times also. That being said, I don't know how many people actually follow the law and besides there's so much noise on my block from the traffic anyway.

For me, quiet enjoyment is either going away or somewhat on Sunday and legal holidays because almost everything is closed Very Happy

amother

Salmon

Tue, May 01 2018, 12:37 pm

amother wrote:

They don't have the right to make more noise than tenants. Quiet enjoyment not sure how that is legally defined but putting a nail in a wall at 5 pm is fine.

I’ve noticed on imamother that people seem to think renters have to be more accomodating.

amother

Denim

Tue, May 01 2018, 9:54 pm

I have rented for many years in many different cities. I never found I had to be more accommodating as a tenant. Everyone had to abide by the same rules, homeowner and tenant alike. It's strange you had all these experiences.

Miri7

Tue, May 01 2018, 11:52 pm

Quiet enjoyment is typically something that a landlord owes a tenant. Tenant should have exclusive use and full access to the rented premises, access to common areas, and be able to enjoy the property they rent free from smoke (excessive) outside noise, etc.

You don’t owe your neighbor/ owner anything.

Your landlord could talk with you if you were interfering with the quiet enjoyment of another tenant of the landlord.

I’d say that you could tell your landlord that your owner neighbor is interfering with your quiet enjoyment by impedingnyour ability to fully use your premises - do repairs, have a small group of people, nailing at reasonable times.

amother

Lilac

Wed, May 02 2018, 1:06 am

It's not a distinction between renting and owning. The difference is apartment living vs a private house. If you live in close proximity to the neighbors, you have to keep quiet in a way that isn't necessary when there's more space.

Amarante

Wed, May 02 2018, 3:49 am

As posted upthread, "quiet enjoyment" is a legal term which describes the duty of a landlord to the tenant and has a specific meaning that includes other obligations that have nothing to do with noise - in fact legally "quiet enjoyment" has nothing to do with noise since it encompasses rights of the tenant having nothing to do with noise per se.

A landlord might have a duty to prevent other TENANTS in the building from disturbing the peace of other tenants in that building.

A neighbor (whether they are a homeowner in a private home or another tenant in another apartment or a renter in a single family home or whatever only has the duty that is imposed by the laws governing noise or nuisance. In general quiet is imposed between 10 P.M. and 6 A.M. and construction might have slightly different times. But in general no one has the right to ask someone to stop making noise outside of those hours although there might be some noise even during the day that would constitute a violation of noise - e.g. amplified loudspeakers outside are forbidden in Los Angeles within x feet of a private residence (which would include apartment buildings).

But you can certainly hammer a nail at 5 P.M.