Is a 5 day a week boy's high school acceptable??

amother

Wed, Nov 07 2007, 10:05 pm

I have a cousin who just started her oldest son in high school. However, I found out that the high school is only five days a week, from Sunday to Thursday. There are no Friday sessions until April or May, when they switch the Sunday classes to Friday.

Is this acceptable? I thought all frum yeshivos had six day schedules and that that was the standard. Since when did five days become acceptable?

I know that it's not my kid and all, but I'm afraid for them that he's going to be ruined by this schedule. How can I show her that a six day schedule is much better for her son?

(I understand that for some of you out of town, your only choice may be 5 days. If that's your only choice then so be it - this question isn't directed to you.)

BeershevaBubby

Wed, Nov 07 2007, 10:19 pm

amother wrote:

You know your cousin better than his mother does?!?!? What make you think sitting and learning six days a week is BEST for this boy?

Believe it or not, the frum community has a dirty little secret (well, they have a lot of them but this is one that pertains to your 'issue') and that is not every boy has a head for Gemara and not every boy can sit and learn 6 days a week.

I know it must come as a shock to you, but it's true.

So rather than this woman sticking her son into a school which may not suit him and will force him to do things he doesn't have the capacity to handle and might even send him off the derech, she is working WITH her son and his obviously sad handicap by putting him into a school that suits him.

TzenaRena

Wed, Nov 07 2007, 11:01 pm

Why do you assume that the boy has any handicap? It does seem strange for a school not to have classes on Friday. I doubt it would happen in a Yeshiva that promotes full strength learning. There is an issue of bitul Torah. To say nothing of a teenage boy having a whole day to do nothing.

Is there any choice in the matter? Or is this the only Yeshiva in their area?

BeershevaBubby

Wed, Nov 07 2007, 11:14 pm

That was me being sarcastic... remarking about how some people see not learning 24/7 as a handicap.

For some schools, with Shabbat starting early and students having to travel over an hour each way to and from school, it makes sense to have a full day of learning on Sunday and not have to worry about getting home in time for Shabbat on Friday.

And yeah, bittul Torah... because Chas v'Shalom a boy should help his mother prepare for Shabbat. You know learning is all well and good but when you don't have the opportunity to apply it, what good is it? Learning about Halachot of Kashrut if you never see it in action beyond waiting 1-3-6 hours between meat and dairy or learning what the Melachot are on a practical level. How is that Bittul Torah?

twinkltoes

Thu, Nov 08 2007, 2:52 am

Kmelion -

G-d forbid a Jewish boy should have time for feminine contact or influence (I.e. from mother and sisters)! And to help around the house for Shabbat. What a TERRIBLE thing! How on EARTH can we expect our boys to be the best husbands they can be when we ship them off to yeshiva - I call it a "men's club" - at the age of 10 and see them again when they're 18 or 20 or 24 or whatever? A weekend here and there doesn't not a home life make! Is there no worth to seeing how Mom and Dad resolve conflicts? Is there no worth in learning to be extra sensitive around PMS-ing sisters?? Or to learning to play gently and lovingly with a younger sibling?

G-d forbid that a Jewish boy should develop other interests and become a (hopefully) well-rounded human being! Is there NO value to playing basketball? Reading a book? Playing an instrument? Gardening? Playing chess with a brother or sister? Volunteering at the local animal shelter? Enjoying H-shem's creations, fresh air, water, sunshine by spending a day at the beach? None of this is important because it's not Torah learning per se? Excuse me while I BARF!

Not everyone is cut out to be a rabbi or shaliach or Hebrew teacher. The world needs doctors and shoemakers and painters and carpenters and garbage collectors and lawyers and musicians and landscape artists and vets and grocers and architects too.

Tamiri

Thu, Nov 08 2007, 3:01 am

Um.... is Yeshivat HaKotel considered serious enough? We just had a guy over for Shabbat, he arrived on Friday after doing errands in town all morning because (gasp) there are no shiurim on Friday.
What in the world do you think these Yeshiva bochurs are? Machines? Bitul torah to G-d forbid prepare for Shabbat, maybe helping mom out with shopping, babies, cleaning, preparing?
I hope that cousin is enjoying yeshiva 5 days a week and helping out at home when he's not in yeshiva.

twinkltoes

Thu, Nov 08 2007, 3:27 am

Isn't kibud av v'eim one of the highest expressions of Torah?

Judaism, IMHO, has come to place SUCH an emphasis on the "head stuff" - I.e. book learning - that it seems these boys and their parents have lost sight of that thing we call L.I.F.E. I don't think that was the original intention or that it's good or healthy. Everything in balance.

shalhevet

Thu, Nov 08 2007, 6:13 am

Tamiri wrote:

Yeshivat HaKotel is not high school. It is not the same for older bochrim, especially living in a different country, who have errands to take care of - laundry, taking clothes to the cleaners, shopping etc and high school boys who take their dirty laundry home to mom and don't really have many chores to take care of.

shoy18

Thu, Nov 08 2007, 6:16 am

shalhevet wrote:

The point here is that why cant he have some chores to do around the house? Why come home erev shabbos right before the zman and dump his stuff and expect it to be ready on sunday morning when he has to leave?

Clarissa

Thu, Nov 08 2007, 7:14 am

My husband didn't like going to a six day yeshiva and would never want it for our children. He felt that he never had any free time. And kids need free time, to visit friends, shop, read whatever they want, think, maybe go see a movie if that's okay in their family.

A person needs to grow, not just as a Jew, but as a person. I loved writing when I was a kid. If a kid can't write on Shabbat, and he's in school on Sunday, when exactly can he do so? What if he/she wants to learn a muscial instrument, or have any hobby? With extra-long school days and homework, there's no time on weeknights.

I can see benefits to Friday being the non-Shabbos day off, and I can see benefits to it being Sunday. I guess more people are off on Sunday, so there's more chance to do things with those people. On the other hand, it's nice to have a Friday off, especially if you live in an area with Blue Laws.

Last edited by Clarissa on Thu, Nov 08 2007, 7:16 am; edited 1 time in total

Ruchel

Thu, Nov 08 2007, 10:41 am

It must be my culture, but I still have to hear of a Jewish school that doesn't give Sunday off, BH. If it wasn't the case, I would consider public school. Jews need a family life too... and Sunday is the only day when the parents don't work and you don't have shabbes restrictions about going out. In a world where often both parents work, don't we need at least one day to do stuff together as a family?

Tamiri

Thu, Nov 08 2007, 11:06 am

School here in Israel is generally 6 days/week. Some HS Yeshivot don't learn on Friday, nor do the Universities. It's hardest on the Olim who are used to Sundays off.
Here, we get all of Sukkot (the Yeshivot get from YK till after Sukkot), all of Chanuka (besides the first day), 3 days for Purim, at least 2 weeks (usually more) for Pesach and 2 days for Shavuot, which is good for family time. Many frum workers take off the regalim to be with their families, which is SO NICE.
It's lovely to have most workers off on Friday. You can go out and have breakfast as a couple, do a little shopping etc. without the kids around. The smart people who get all the preps and cleaning done on Thursday have a whole day to do what they want.

mummiedearest

Thu, Nov 08 2007, 11:17 am

I don't know which high school this is, but I'd love to send my son there when he's old enough.

not only do boys have little time for family and chessed at home, they have other needs. how many teenage boys have braces? those orthodontist appointments cut into their shiur time. don't you think they feel bad having to miss shiur for important things like doctor's appointments? my brother suffered a serious head injury last year, and b'h is doing almost perfectly now. but he still has doctors' appointments regularly, and they cut into chavrusa time. not only does he feel bad not learning then, he feels his chavrusa is missing out. is this fair? he may be an unusual example, but there are other boys who need to see doctors regularly who are serious learners and feel that they can't have a regular chavrusa because of their doctor schedule. if they had a day off, they would be able to do everything without feeling bad. we expect too much out of our boys much of the time, and too much out of the mothers who give up seeing their sons during the teenage years.

tzatza

Thu, Nov 15 2007, 11:21 am

Firstly, Avigayils, I just loved your initial post! Agree with every word.
Second (not to offend anyone's religious feelings) I just hate the fact that DS yeshiva has a 6 day schedule (He is only 6 years old, and now we cannot visit granparents who live in the Philadelphia). Another thing that I cannot comprehend as a working mother, is why a school has to be closed two days before YT begins? what choice do working parents have? what about parents who have no relatives who can watch the kids?

louche

Thu, Nov 15 2007, 7:57 pm

Kmelion wrote:

I second the motion. My brother went to a school that had no classes on fridays in the winter. my mom couldn't have managed without him b/c she was a secretary in a yeshiva that was open on friday and she had to work! he used to do all the grocery shopping, vacuuming and floor washing, and for all I know the laundry, too. As a result, my sil is blessed with a husband who has excellent domestic skills.