How would you explain this to a teenager?

amother

Amethyst

Fri, May 04 2018, 4:34 pm

Why is there a halachic difference between leaving a light on for shabbos vs. Leaving a television on? Why is one 100% acceptable and the other 100% not acceptable?

amother

Jetblack

Fri, May 04 2018, 4:41 pm

No difference. Not leaving the TV on is more of a "spirit of the law" thing. There are good reasons not to do it, because it definitely ruins the Shabbos atmosphere, but you're not violating halacha in any way.

tichellady

Fri, May 04 2018, 4:44 pm

I would ask them what they see as the difference. By the way, I don’t think the second is 100% not acceptable. I’m sure there are circumstances where it would be considered ok. Not to watch hockey but perhaps during a war or national crisis or for a sick person’s mental health etc

amother

Seagreen

Fri, May 04 2018, 4:47 pm

amother wrote:

Why is there a halachic difference between leaving a light on for shabbos vs. Leaving a television on? Why is one 100% acceptable and the other 100% not acceptable?

Im not exactly sure but I think it has to do with sound verses light. Along the same lines as not settting an alarm that would ring. Maybe someone else knows more about this?

SixOfWands

Fri, May 04 2018, 4:55 pm

amother wrote:

Why is there a halachic difference between leaving a light on for shabbos vs. Leaving a television on? Why is one 100% acceptable and the other 100% not acceptable?

AIUI, there is no halachic difference between the two.

The difference is that lights are in the spirit of Shabbat, and the TV is not. (Although MY teens counter that what could be more in the spirit of relaxing than tuning into a good movie, or a game.)

amother

Jetblack

Fri, May 04 2018, 4:58 pm

Seagreen, it can't be that. Otherwise the Shabbos alarm wouldn't exist (an alarm that goes off after a certain time frame so no one has to shut it). And lots of frum people use it to not miss shul. The honest truth is that leaving the TV on is not mechallel Shabbos any more than leaving the bathroom light on. But if you left the TV on and sat around watching whatever is on it all day, you'd definitely lose out on a significant part of what makes Shabbos so special.

HeartyAppetite

Fri, May 04 2018, 6:02 pm

Shoshana37 wrote:

I have a teenage son who asked me why can’t we ask Alexa to turn on the AC or other electronic devices

When you ask Alexa a question you are turning on the machine.

penguin

Fri, May 04 2018, 6:06 pm

I am pretty sure I have read that during wars the many Rabbonim in EY allowed leaving on the radio to know about alerts and all-clears.

But I am also pretty sure that watching a TV or video is totally uvda d'chol, not in the spirit of Shabbos at all. Asos cheftzecha at least.

Also Rav Moshe Feinstein zt"l was opposed to Shabbos clocks, at least for A/C. Which is slightly off-topic.

Do you have a Rov or mechanech who understands that teens need their questions answered? If not try writing to Rabbi YY Jacobson.

goodmorning

Fri, May 04 2018, 6:50 pm

There is a prohibition of "hashma'as kol" against having machinery that makes noise on Shabbos, even if it was turned on or set before Shabbos.

There is discussion among the poskim as to when this prohibition applies and you should obviously consult an LOR with any practical questions. But this would be an obvious difference between lights and television.

MitzadSheini

Sat, May 05 2018, 4:05 pm

You could say "that is a great question. A lot of big rabbis wondered about this. But I don't know the answer.". Then go to the YUTorah website and start searching. Sometimes you have to try a couple of different terms with their search engine to find what you are looking for. So search something like "television Shabbat" and if that doesn't work try "timer Shabbat", "noise Shabbat", "machines Shabbat". Here is one I found. I didn't listen to it right now but I think I heard it a while ago and I think it deals with the issue.

http://download2.yutorah.org/2.....6.MP3

amother

Bisque

Sat, May 05 2018, 10:15 pm

I remember learning that there could be Yidden working on tv and by watching we are supporting their chillul Shabbos. This was in regards to listening to the radio here in America while there was war in EY. Our teacher told us that we could wait until after Shabbos to find out the news but we shouldn’t leave devices in even in a closed room

lech lecha08

Sun, May 06 2018, 3:24 am

penguin wrote:

I am pretty sure I have read that during wars the many Rabbonim in EY allowed leaving on the radio to know about alerts and all-clears.

This is a different category. The radio station isn't playing regular programs and music and then sounding an alarm. It's dedicated stations that are basically silent unless there's a siren.
And if there's a siren, you're already dealing with pikuach nefesh

aquad

Sun, May 06 2018, 6:08 am

When I was a child, my father used to walk over to the local non jewish pizzaria, and watch the ball game on shabbos. He wouldn't buy anything or turn on any electricity- just sit. He stopped as he became more frum, but he didn't do anything technically wrong- just not the chinuch he wanted to give his children.

cinnamon

Sun, May 06 2018, 6:51 am

My first reaction was that there is no difference and it's just about the spirit of shabbos but then I thought that maybe it has to do with a geder so that you won't come to change the channels and do a melacha? Sort of like you aren't allowed to ride a horse on shabbos so that you won't come to cutting off a branch to make a crop?

This is a very good question and could lead to some very intresting discussions.
Just this shabbos we got to talking to my niece about how halacha is paskened. She was fasinatined to learn that most of the electronics we don't use on shabbos is due to בונה (building) and not due to lighting a fire...

DVOM

Sun, May 06 2018, 7:34 am

amother wrote:

Why is there a halachic difference between leaving a light on for shabbos vs. Leaving a television on? Why is one 100% acceptable and the other 100% not acceptable?

I don't think one is 100% acceptable and the other 100% not. Halacha isn't usually like that, black and white, super clear.

Communicate respect for your teenager's intellectual curiosity (even if you suspect that they really just want to argue Wink

) by giving this question a full, nuanced answer. Do some research together, ask for her opinion ("yes, how odd! On the surface, these two acts look so halachically similar? why do you think one became universally acceptable, and the other is not 'done' in many/most circles?"), go together to talk to a rabbi who can give an intelligent answer.

imasoftov

Sun, May 06 2018, 7:47 am

cinnamon wrote:

Just this shabbos we got to talking to my niece about how halacha is paskened. She was fasinatined to learn that most of the electronics we don't use on shabbos is due to בונה (building) and not due to lighting a fire...

That is the Chazon Ish's view, but it's not the only one and should not be taught as if it is.

imasinger

Sun, May 06 2018, 7:48 am

I have no real idea, but off the top of my head, if we refrain from non essential medication because they might forget and make some on Shabbos, and we don't play instruments because we might fix them if they break, then maybe its a bad idea because we might adjust volume or channel on a tv?

cinnamon

Sun, May 06 2018, 8:40 am

imasoftov wrote:

That is the Chazon Ish's view, but it's not the only one and should not be taught as if it is.

Yes I mentioned this is the chazon Ish's view I didn't have any sources for other opinions. Would love to hear them though can you share?