Kids are a Burden?

amother

Beige

Mon, May 07 2018, 5:06 am

I read earlier today on here that someone said "You can't make your kids feel like a burden," and I'm curious what other people's views are on this. My oldest is 3 1/2 and wonderful and adorable and sweet, but likes to make a mess sometimes, just for the fun of it. I think this is a normal excitement at that age, especially when it comes to water. So this Shabbos my husband was telling him about the parsha, and he said you can't make a Jewish slave work extra, just for fun (for no purpose)- like they did in Mitzrayim. And my husband pointed out to him that if I just washed the floor and he's throwing cornflakes around, that's making extra work for me, which is not allowed.

So yesterday I washed all the floors because they were a total mess from Shabbos- because of him, but not necessarily intentional. Mostly dripped ices that were then tracked around the room and picked up dirt. So during lunch we were discussing something and we mentioned to him that we need to wash the floors much more now that we have kids, even without him meaning to make a mess. I told him that I love him though and am so so happy to have him, even if it make the floors messier. And that before we had kids we davened to Hashem every day to have children, even though the floors were clean. This was all in a somewhat joking matter.

Then later he was too rough with the window shades and a piece broke. I did something to fix it and told him not too touch it, and he took it out and it broke more. So I told him it's not such a problem it broke, but it's a problem he didn't listen. And I pointed out that we had window shades that didn't break before we had a delicious little boy like him, but I'd still rather have him.

So I'm curious- in your view, is it damaging to him to point out that even when he is following directions and doing everything as right as can be for a 3 year old, things get damaged and messy? Is it damaging to him to point out that when he's not following the rules things get damaged and messy even more? Should kids not be made aware of either of these things? Is it okay if they know without a doubt that you love them anyway, or is this somehow confusing and worse? What do you think?

amother

Aquamarine

Mon, May 07 2018, 6:02 am

I don't think I agree with your premise that "when he is following directions and doing everything as right as can be for a 3 year old, things get damaged and messy".

You reasonably allow your 3 year old to make messes, and you allow him to play with things that he can break. Did you direct him not to walk around with a drippy treat? Did you tell him not to play with the blinds from the outset?

He's not old enough to fully understand his strength vs mechanical weakness of things that aren't toys (re blinds) or theormodynamics (re icy)... so unless you are helicopter parenting (ie providing a lot of directions), things are going to get messy and break.

regarding what you said being 'damaging' to him? No. Are the other ways you could have handled it to get a better result from your 3 year old. Sure.

cheeseaddict

Mon, May 07 2018, 6:04 am

I wouldn't tell a small child that before he came, things were much better/easier, but I love him anyways.
You mean to emphasize that he's more than worth all the trouble he causes, but essentially you're repeatedly telling him that life was easier/better before him, and that's putting a lot of guilt on a little kid.

Better to say "It's okay that you made a mistake. I love you no matter what. Let's figure out how to fix this or how to avoid it next time..."

amother

Beige

Mon, May 07 2018, 6:21 am

Well it started off with my husband explaining to him that it's not okay to make a mess because someone has to clean it up, and he needs to listen when we tell him not to do something. He's sometimes impulsive, so he'll drip some juice on the floor while drinking, and then decide to spill the whole cup on the floor. Or this morning he dropped a cornflake on the table and it went to the floor (next to the leaf), and he thought that was just the greatest thing ever, so started poking all of the cornflakes through to the floor. So that's the kind of behavior we were trying to discourage. With the window shade, it was similar. He was trying to close it (because I wanted it closed), and it broke, and he was upset he broke it. So I showed him later that I managed to fix it with a stick, so he wanted to put another stick. I told him better not to because it's delicate, but he later went and did it anyway, and it broke more. So really I see that these are different cases. In the first, a deliberate mess, he should need to clean it up. (But he can't clean any of these effectively- not with a rag or a broom- so what do you do then? Clean it after and hope the cleaning attempts will discourage a repeat?) And what would the consequence be to not listening and breaking the shade? Is it okay to say "This happened because you didn't listen, next time you need to listen?" Will that work if he actually feels badly about it? Better to make sure he doesn't feel bad or that he does?

amother

Aquamarine

Mon, May 07 2018, 6:36 am

amother wrote:

You've changed your questions...

Personally I don't think a 3 year old can grasp what your husband is trying to get across, so I don't think it will be effective. Aim for effective as a goal.

try: How to Talk so Little Kids Will Listen: A Survival Guide to Life with Children Ages 2-7

salt

Mon, May 07 2018, 6:39 am

Telling him that it's not good to make extra work for you for no reason is too abstract for him to understand.

I would take away the bowl of cornflakes the second you see that he's dropping bits on the floor deliberately.
I would take away any sticks that he could possibly be sticking in the blinds - just whisk him away and distract him. Fix it after he's in bed.

Basically, keep the amount of damage he can do to a minimum. For your sake, so you have less cleaning up and fixing, and also so that you have to reprimand him as little as possible.

Give him ice-pops sitting on a chair in the kitchen. If he gets down, take the ice pop away and tell him it's waiting for him in the freezer when he's ready to sit down. Or take him outside to eat it.

amother

Beige

Mon, May 07 2018, 6:47 am

I know I'm changing my questions, thank you all for putting up with me and for the helpful feedback. I can take away the cornflakes when he drops them, that's no problem. We even have a book where the baby has her bottle upside-down dripping milk, and ds says her mommy's going to take it away because she's making a mess. The issue is more with juice being poured, which already is a larger amount of work even if I take it away right away. And then the puddle looks just so fun to splash in that I have to keep him out of the room...

BadTichelDay

Mon, May 07 2018, 6:55 am

My kids (similar age to yours) make that kind of mess and damage as well, lots of times. I don't think rational explanations work at that age. I just pull either them or the item in question away and tell them sternly that it's forbidden to do whatever it is. If they damage my personal items, I might add that this made Ima very sad. If they spill food/liquids or scribble on the walls/floor etc, I make them clean it up again, with my help, obviously. But who makes a mess has to remove it as good as he/she can.
Edit: Personally, I would not tell them that the house was much neater before they were born - I'd be worried that it makes them somehow feel guilty about their existence.

amother

Apricot

Mon, May 07 2018, 7:35 am

Children need to learn age appropriate responsibility. If they break a rule or damage they should be held responsible within reason. This applies however, from age 7 or 8. NOT AGE 3!! Welcome to life! Kids make messes and destroy and it hurts their self esteem to keep pointing it out. Thats why it's important to kid proof. When my 9 yr old son broke the clock on the wall and I told him to stop playing with it but he didnt- we had him pay towards replacing it. (We never have conversations about before you came along and after...sounds damaging.) Its just cause and effect. You broke so you replace. We never give speeches or show frustration.
And yeah kids are totally a burden. And a pleasure.

Laiya

Mon, May 07 2018, 8:01 am

OP I agree with the other responses. I think your intent is to tell him that you love him no matter what, but telling him that your life was simpler before he was born, is probably too abstract and can make him feel bad.

I've learned that it's not good to personalize kids' misbehaviors, in general. Iow, don't discuss how the misbehavior made you feel, just focus on the specific task you're trying to accomplish.

Your ds sounds delicious, very bright and exuberant, and also age appropriate. When he was pushing the cereal through the table leaf, he wasn't thinking about the mess, he just thought it was interesting to watch it fall down. I would say, Ok time to put away the cereal now. Also maybe let him help you sweep it up.

As an aside, I have a No eating ices in the house-rule, for the reason you describe.

Bnei Berak 10

Mon, May 07 2018, 8:33 am

[quote="baby12x"]I don't get why you would tell him that this didn't happen before he was born or that he causes you more work
Can't you just say "when you drop ices on the floor it makes a mess. Here is a rag to wipe it up"?
Why make him feel guilty or bad?

I think it is damaging to point out things that he can't help
What exactly are you gaining by telling him? What is the point?[/uote]

Very good questions, I would much like to hear OP on this one.

amother

Beige

Mon, May 07 2018, 8:57 am

Thanks for all the advice. And don't worry, this wasn't an every-day mantra. In fact, I tell him all day every day that he's the biggest bracha in the world. This was just mentioned this one day in the context of the effect his actions can have on someone else. And in a very light-hearted way. He doesn't seem at all damaged by it today, baruch Hashem, so I think I'll just refrain from such comments in the future.

But I am still curious about one aspect- did you all not know that you took a lot of time/money/whatever from your parents? I for sure knew my parents were spending a lot of time and money on me that they used for other things before I was born. My mom was a SAHM who quit her job once she had children. She definitely didn't make me feel guilty for it and said raising us gave her tremendous pleasure, but I still knew that was the case. So knowledge without guilt is possible, no? (But seems better perhaps as a realization made by oneself when a bit more mature.)

amother

Aquamarine

Mon, May 07 2018, 9:13 am

amother wrote:

No. I didn't take anything from them. We were a family unit. Money earned, time spent, was used up within the family.