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Kids are a Burden?
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Bnei Berak 10




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 9:26 am
amother wrote:
Thanks for all the advice. And don't worry, this wasn't an every-day mantra. In fact, I tell him all day every day that he's the biggest bracha in the world. This was just mentioned this one day in the context of the effect his actions can have on someone else. And in a very light-hearted way. He doesn't seem at all damaged by it today, baruch Hashem, so I think I'll just refrain from such comments in the future.

But I am still curious about one aspect- did you all not know that you took a lot of time/money/whatever from your parents? I for sure knew my parents were spending a lot of time and money on me that they used for other things before I was born. My mom was a SAHM who quit her job once she had children. She definitely didn't make me feel guilty for it and said raising us gave her tremendous pleasure, but I still knew that was the case. So knowledge without guilt is possible, no? (But seems better perhaps as a realization made by oneself when a bit more mature.)


Children are, IMO, not expected to even think of that they take a lot of time/money/whatever. Why should they? What's the point of telling them? They will get this knowledge at a later stage as teen agers but with a 3 year old, NO.

I get kind of bad vibes with your questions 'Are children a burden?' and 'don't children know they take a lof of time/money/whatever?'. Children NEVER ask to be born. Is there a parent out theer who seriously think that life before kids and after kids will be the same?!
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amother
Jade


 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 9:29 am
amother wrote:
Any parent who tells her/his child these things should also put aside a lot of money for therapy for when the child will need it, (pretty soon).
A better use of energy and money, would be for the parents to get some therapy and learn to not inject guilt into their children.

I felt like a burden and never forgave my mother for it.
Don't ever insinuate that things were easier before children. You may mean well but the child doesn't know that. Most of the damage in this world is done by people "who mean well."
And yes, I've spent a lot of money on therapy. And medication, too. And things are still difficult.
You need serious guidance about raising children.
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oliveoil




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 9:33 am
No child asks to be born. So the burden (depletion of assets, as u seem to insist) is your own doing for your own benefit.
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asmileaday




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 9:43 am
amother wrote:
snip...

But I am still curious about one aspect- did you all not know that you took a lot of time/money/whatever from your parents? I for sure knew my parents were spending a lot of time and money on me that they used for other things before I was born. My mom was a SAHM who quit her job once she had children. She definitely didn't make me feel guilty for it and said raising us gave her tremendous pleasure, but I still knew that was the case. So knowledge without guilt is possible, no? (But seems better perhaps as a realization made by oneself when a bit more mature.)


Nope.

Once I was married and running my own house, yeah. But as a kid? No way.
It never occurred to me to even think along the lines that my parents' life was so much easier before they had kids. (And I come from a double digit family.)

I remember after my wedding I was reading a book that had a chapter where the author was apologizing and thanking her mom in detail for all the things she put up with when she was a kid (normal stuff).

I immediately called my mom and told her, y'know I never even realized how much parents go through when raising their kids. She told me - and that's how it should be! I was so appreciative of that perspective.

So to answer your original op please don't tell your child again how life was easier before he was born. Even though you follow up with but it's worth it.
A lot of what you write sounds like normal age appropriate behavior and your discipline seems ok.
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simba




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 9:49 am
amother wrote:
But I am still curious about one aspect- did you all not know that you took a lot of time/money/whatever from your parents?


Not until I had my own children and realized how much it takes. I always thought they wer great patents but I didn't realize how much it took to be great parents.
My appreciation for them has grown and I have verbalized it to them.

I don't understand why it is important for you to make your child aware of this at any age? Teach him to have gratitude in general and one day he will have gratitude to you for all the energy/time/money you invested in him.
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Bnei Berak 10




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 9:52 am
amother wrote:
I read earlier today on here that someone said "You can't make your kids feel like a burden," and I'm curious what other people's views are on this. My oldest is 3 1/2 and wonderful and adorable and sweet, but likes to make a mess sometimes, just for the fun of it. I think this is a normal excitement at that age, especially when it comes to water. So this Shabbos my husband was telling him about the parsha, and he said you can't make a Jewish slave work extra, just for fun (for no purpose)- like they did in Mitzrayim. And my husband pointed out to him that if I just washed the floor and he's throwing cornflakes around, that's making extra work for me, which is not allowed.

So yesterday I washed all the floors because they were a total mess from Shabbos- because of him, but not necessarily intentional. Mostly dripped ices that were then tracked around the room and picked up dirt. So during lunch we were discussing something and we mentioned to him that we need to wash the floors much more now that we have kids, even without him meaning to make a mess. I told him that I love him though and am so so happy to have him, even if it make the floors messier. And that before we had kids we davened to Hashem every day to have children, even though the floors were clean. This was all in a somewhat joking matter.

Then later he was too rough with the window shades and a piece broke. I did something to fix it and told him not too touch it, and he took it out and it broke more. So I told him it's not such a problem it broke, but it's a problem he didn't listen. And I pointed out that we had window shades that didn't break before we had a delicious little boy like him, but I'd still rather have him.

So I'm curious- in your view, is it damaging to him to point out that even when he is following directions and doing everything as right as can be for a 3 year old, things get damaged and messy? Is it damaging to him to point out that when he's not following the rules things get damaged and messy even more? Should kids not be made aware of either of these things? Is it okay if they know without a doubt that you love them anyway, or is this somehow confusing and worse? What do you think?


OP, I've read your post a few times and I find it more and more disturbing. Why are you showing your comparisons between before vs. after child were born? For what? Because things get damaged and messy? Ask yourself: Do you indeed expect a 3 year old to behave like an adult? To have the motorics like an adult?
Yes, you teach children not to mess with food and break things (some very good tips upthread). But this comparison you are doing, I find it damaging, yes.
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amother
Lemon


 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 9:57 am
I'm just trying to understand here - no one ever "feels" in their hearts that their kids are a burden and things were easier and simpler before them? Yes, I know even though we wanted them & asked for them & love them.

Is the point most people are making in this thread is that even if we "feel" that way, never verbalize that to kids or let them feel that impression that you feel they are hard? Is it kind of a "lie" or is it that we should work on ourselves (maybe through therapy, etc) to come to the point that we don't even feel it?
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Bnei Berak 10




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 10:03 am
[quote="simba"]Not until I had my own children and realized how much it takes. I always thought they wer great patents but I didn't realize how much it took to be great parents.
My appreciation for them has grown and I have verbalized it to them.

I don't understand why it is important for you to make your child aware of this at any age? Teach him to have gratitude in general and one day he will have gratitude to you for all the energy/time/money you invested in him.[/quote]


This. Golden words and wisdom Simba! I press the like button very hard! Yes

OP: Read Simba's words VERY carefully. Memorize them. Cause in life things, and especially child-parent relations, tend to go both ways.
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 10:06 am
amother wrote:
I'm just trying to understand here - no one ever "feels" in their hearts that their kids are a burden and things were easier and simpler before them? Yes, I know even though we wanted them & asked for them & love them.

Is the point most people are making in this thread is that even if we "feel" that way, never verbalize that to kids or let them feel that impression that you feel they are hard? Is it kind of a "lie" or is it that we should work on ourselves (maybe through therapy, etc) to come to the point that we don't even feel it?


Yes the point is there is nothing gained by telling a 3 year old that housekeeping was easier before he was born.

In other words- don't vent to your 3 year old.

Or don't guilt-trip your three year old.
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SuperWify




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 10:10 am
amother wrote:
Thanks for all the advice. And don't worry, this wasn't an every-day mantra. In fact, I tell him all day every day that he's the biggest bracha in the world. This was just mentioned this one day in the context of the effect his actions can have on someone else. And in a very light-hearted way. He doesn't seem at all damaged by it today, baruch Hashem, so I think I'll just refrain from such comments in the future.

But I am still curious about one aspect- did you all not know that you took a lot of time/money/whatever from your parents? I for sure knew my parents were spending a lot of time and money on me that they used for other things before I was born. My mom was a SAHM who quit her job once she had children. She definitely didn't make me feel guilty for it and said raising us gave her tremendous pleasure, but I still knew that was the case. So knowledge without guilt is possible, no? (But seems better perhaps as a realization made by oneself when a bit more mature.)


Gd OP! You child is a BABY!!!
He didn’t ask to be born!!

How do you expect him to understand something that even (especially) teenagers can’t fathom???

Your post is disturbing.

Yes, children aren’t “convenient”, yes, it was easier before they were born, but yes, you chose to have them and they didn’t have a choice.

Yes, you can ask him to clean up. No, you can’t make him feel like a burden.

Please please get help.
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Bnei Berak 10




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 10:20 am
amother wrote:
I'm just trying to understand here - no one ever "feels" in their hearts that their kids are a burden and things were easier and simpler before them? Yes, I know even though we wanted them & asked for them & love them.

Is the point most people are making in this thread is that even if we "feel" that way, never verbalize that to kids or let them feel that impression that you feel they are hard? Is it kind of a "lie" or is it that we should work on ourselves (maybe through therapy, etc) to come to the point that we don't even feel it?


You never ever vent to you kids that life was easier before you had them! They are kids, not your grown up therapist. You are entitled to your feelings yes. Parenting is growing as a person and growth can be painful, it's not always pleasant. Why did you marry? Marriage is about growth too. Becoming an adult is about growth. If you want a life without any difficulties and resistance then you will also never appreciate any joy. It's a bit like running a marathon: no pain, no gain.
And yes, seems like therapy would be good for you.
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ellacoe




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 10:23 am
amother wrote:
Thanks for all the advice. And don't worry, this wasn't an every-day mantra. In fact, I tell him all day every day that he's the biggest bracha in the world. This was just mentioned this one day in the context of the effect his actions can have on someone else. And in a very light-hearted way. He doesn't seem at all damaged by it today, baruch Hashem, so I think I'll just refrain from such comments in the future.

But I am still curious about one aspect- did you all not know that you took a lot of time/money/whatever from your parents? I for sure knew my parents were spending a lot of time and money on me that they used for other things before I was born. My mom was a SAHM who quit her job once she had children. She definitely didn't make me feel guilty for it and said raising us gave her tremendous pleasure, but I still knew that was the case. So knowledge without guilt is possible, no? (But seems better perhaps as a realization made by oneself when a bit more mature.)


There seems to be a few things at play here.
It sounds like your son was just playing with his cereal because he liked the texture or the effect be it sounds etc that it made when he was dropping it etc. Children at that age are exploring and these mundane everyday things are exciting for them. While it makes a mess for you keep in mind what it is to them. Someone mentioned only having food in the kitchen while seated which is a great idea on many levels.

In regard to being a burden. Children are not easy, no one says that they are. You mention above that your mother didn't make you feel guilty for all the time, money, lost career etc. that raising you required. But you still knew it was the case. Perhaps consider what that means. It sounds like you feel that you were a burden to her. How do you feel towards your son? What are you trying to achieve by telling him that there was less housekeeping before he was born? Step back and think about what the effect of hearing that is on a child? I am sure that you are a wonderful mother and don't want to hurt your son in any way. It may be helpful to examine your thoughts about being a burden to your parents and think about your attitude towards your son (conscious or unconscious) and what you want to convey to him.
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 10:26 am
[youtube]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HU1HReY-HX8[/youtube]

Sorry, couldn't help it Very Happy But yeah, what everyone else said. Please get help, this isn't normal. It's ok to feel this way sometimes. Kids are hard and you can't do or buy what you want when you want once you have them, and sometimes you do resent that. But that's not something you ever verbalize to them! They will understand intuitively when they're older, it becomes pretty obvious once you have your own time and money to spend, there is absolutely no need to teach this idea.
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 10:30 am
Maybe it’s time to teach him some responsibility. If he drops his cereal let him help you pick it up. If he spills a drink, let him wipe it up with a towel or napkin or paper towel. You may have to do some more clean up after, but there’s no reason why he can’t help. My baby (she will be two next week) throws away her diaper, puts her dishes in the sink, puts her clothes in the hamper....
Children are work. The end. Some are harder than others, and some parents are more able to cope than other. Your child, however, in NOT a burden. A burden is something you carry around with you, which you wish you never had. I certainly hope that’s not the way you feel about your son. Instead of telling him what a burden he is, speak to him about responsibility. “When we spill or drop something, we need to clean it up. Come, help mommy clean it up. Next time let’s try to be a little bit more careful.”
Maybe get him a snack cup, so he can’t just dump his cereal. Maybe get him a cup with a cover, or a water bottle, so it won’t spill. Definitely enforce eating and drinking only at the table.
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 10:34 am
amother wrote:
I'm just trying to understand here - no one ever "feels" in their hearts that their kids are a burden and things were easier and simpler before them? Yes, I know even though we wanted them & asked for them & love them.

Is the point most people are making in this thread is that even if we "feel" that way, never verbalize that to kids or let them feel that impression that you feel they are hard? Is it kind of a "lie" or is it that we should work on ourselves (maybe through therapy, etc) to come to the point that we don't even feel it?

I don’t think most people feel like their kids are a burden. They really don’t. I think most people genuinely understand that children are work. Your house will not be pristine. Messes will be made. Things will get broken. If you sincerely feel like your child is a burden, then that is something you need to work on, but also DONT EVER TELL THAT TO YOUR CHILD. things were not easier before. They were different.
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amother
Cobalt


 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 12:33 pm
amother wrote:
I'm just trying to understand here - no one ever "feels" in their hearts that their kids are a burden and things were easier and simpler before them? Yes, I know even though we wanted them & asked for them & love them.

Is the point most people are making in this thread is that even if we "feel" that way, never verbalize that to kids or let them feel that impression that you feel they are hard? Is it kind of a "lie" or is it that we should work on ourselves (maybe through therapy, etc) to come to the point that we don't even feel it?


Actually, I did feel that my kids are a "burden". On the one hand I love them, on the other hand I often feel that I can't cope any more with them and work outside the house and dh and housework all together. Very recently I suffered a sudden and potentially life threatening health problem. While I was in hospital, I started thinking. Before, I had often felt that the kids prevent me from going to shul or to shiurim and leading a "normal" life in general. Then it suddenly clicked and I realized that raising kids is not an obstacle to a normal religious life but really a great way of serving Hashem. After all, I'm raising the next generation of frum Jews here. It's messy and difficult in the beginning, but if I keep up the effort, I have the chance to raise and mold really great people.
Maybe, בע"ה, my son will one day be a great Rav, or a scientist or outstanding in some other way, and then, who cares that he spilled yoghurt all over the couch today.
Maybe my daughter, בע"ה, will be an influential Rebbetzin, or a very successful teacher or a famous painter, and then, who cares that she broke a plate yesterday...
Maybe they'll just be plain good Jews.

And maybe one day I'll be decrepit and old and spill soup all over the bed because I can't sit up straight any more and I'll need someone to feed me...
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 1:09 pm
My parents never made me feel like I was a burden, EXCEPT one time.

I was away at camp, and I got to call home after a few weeks. Mom was saying that she looked forward to hearing all about it when I got home, and then she blurted out "The house has stayed much cleaner since you've been gone!"

That broke my heart. Nearly 40 years later, and it still hurts to think about it. Crying

OP, daven really, really hard, that your sweet son will not remember your words. EVER.
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amother
Coral


 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 1:13 pm
amother wrote:
Thanks for all the advice. And don't worry, this wasn't an every-day mantra. In fact, I tell him all day every day that he's the biggest bracha in the world. This was just mentioned this one day in the context of the effect his actions can have on someone else. And in a very light-hearted way. He doesn't seem at all damaged by it today, baruch Hashem, so I think I'll just refrain from such comments in the future.

But I am still curious about one aspect- did you all not know that you took a lot of time/money/whatever from your parents? I for sure knew my parents were spending a lot of time and money on me that they used for other things before I was born. My mom was a SAHM who quit her job once she had children. She definitely didn't make me feel guilty for it and said raising us gave her tremendous pleasure, but I still knew that was the case. So knowledge without guilt is possible, no? (But seems better perhaps as a realization made by oneself when a bit more mature.)


I don't think you need to worry so much you'll damage your child. When you are consistent and treat them normally, with love and with normal boundaries, they learn they are loved and learn to be resilient also when they don't always get their way. I don't even think you need to say they are the biggest bracha etc always, they just know they are precious when you treat them with respect and love and also make appropriate demands (because what they do matter to you and you trust them to be able to handle appropriate responsibilities, which then helps them develop the feeling of self-mastery). You absolutely get away with saying the wrong thing also here and there when most of your communication is positive.

I remember sometimes feeling a bit guilty that I took a lot of money or effort as a child but it had good results: I learned to appreciate what I was given. I don't think the goal is for kids to always just feel they are the best, negative feelings are part of life too. And yes my parents would often say that the house was cleaner when I was out but I didn't feel bad for it because I also knew they were so happy I was back and it didn't matter if the house was so clean anyway (plus they showed me how to help with cleaning).

I really disagree with the previous poster that one comment from parents can break your heart for good. An adult can decide to remember it that way but that is their responsibility if they want to hold onto one comment and grow bitter from it. Nobody says the right thing all the time. What happens most of the time is what counts.
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iyar




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 1:28 pm
I don't know why it's necessary or even desirable to discuss philosophical or existential issues with a three year old.
He is only just beginning to develop an awareness of your existence as an independent being outside of his own life. (We all know about the toddler watching his parents' wedding video and asking where he was.) Why are you discussing your life before he came into the world?
Just as you choose age appropriate books with pictures and few words on a page, choose to have simple, easy to grasp, loving conversations. Momi loves you. We eat at the table with a plate. We don't play with window shades. We like crayons. We don't color on the new sofa. We like cookies. Too many cookies will give us a tummy ache. We brush our teeth. We try to keep the water in the sink. We like going out. We're sad when it's time to come inside. We love to watch Momi light Shabbos candles. We never ever touch them. Momi loves you.
You can read Tolstoy and Moreh Nevuchim (lehavdil) together in a few years, if you're so inclined.
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amother
Beige


 

Post Mon, May 07 2018, 3:33 pm
Okay, I really don't think anything horrible happened over here. I definitely don't feel like my children are a burden, but I definitely sometimes do feel like raising them is hard work. But definitely also something I enjoy tremendously and am truly grateful for. The term burden was from another thread I read, and I just realized it's somewhat connected. Here's what happened from what I remember (I'm hoping some clarity will calm some people here down a bit...):
DH: Shmulik, please don't spill your whatever on the floor and make a mess since mommy just worked so hard doing sponja to make the floor so clean.
Me: Yeah, it's the first time I've done sponja on a Sunday, but the floor was a total disaster.
DH: Yeah, we do sponja much more often now that we've had kids. Or maybe less since we had more time before.
Me: No, definitely more. Before we did it once a week, if that.
Shmulik: What did you and Daddy say?
Me: We just said our floors didn't get so dirty before we had kids, so we didn't do sponja so often. But do you think people without kinderlach are happy they have clean floors, or that they daven every day for Hashem to give them kinderlach?
Shmulik: They daven for kinderlach.
Me: Right, just like before you were born, I davened every day for Hashem to send me kinderlach.
That was it. Nobody seemed upset or scarred. So I hear that it's not a necessary conversation to have, and maybe better not to get into these kinds of conversations at all right now, and probably important to be more conscious of what dh and I say to each other since less goes way over his head now than it used to and he's gotten more curious, but I don't think it was really so traumatic.
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