Invite guest you don't know well do you say cholov stam?

amother

Bisque

Thu, May 10 2018, 10:30 am

amother wrote:

I agree the host should have said.

But on your other point, we once asked a sheila about eating at someone's hinge who uses hashgachas we don't hold by.

The Rav asked of the people were shomrei mitzvot who ask shailot about kashrus. They were. He told us we can eat all the food at their house. They had a psak that that hashgacha was kosher, when we were in their home we were to accept it.

Right, so you follow the psak of your Rav.

There will always be Rabbonim who pasken differently so that doensn't mean it is a universal answer for everyone.

amother

Mint

Thu, May 10 2018, 10:49 am

amother wrote:

Right, so you follow the psak of your Rav.

There will always be Rabbonim who pasken differently so that doensn't mean it is a universal answer for everyone.

Right, which is why I wrote in my original post you should ask, and might be told you did the correct thing, but might also be told next time to eat it. But it is definitely not clear cut to eat only challah.

amother

Royalblue

Thu, May 10 2018, 11:42 am

amother wrote:

How so?

"I am going to go out of my way to make sure that I am aware of anything I need to be aware"

If you are going 'out of your way' means you are not just directly asking the the guest "what do I need to know about you to make your stay more comfortable".. You spend an impossible amount time trying to make yourself aware of 'anything' which is basically an infinite list.

amother

Seagreen

Thu, May 10 2018, 11:46 am

Royalblue dear, do you just like to fight?

I said everything within my power and according to my knowledge. That means I ask them about any special dietary restrictions or if they only eat specific hechsherim. This is very doable.

And when guests are at my house, then yes, it is time for best behavior. Smiles, invitations to relax and not work, unless I see that they feel the need to help.

Our forefathers were makpid to practice hachnoses orchim in the best way possible; shouldn't we aspire to that?

And btw, if a guest says something that insults me or doesn't like/choose to eat a certain dish, my job is STILL to make my guest feel comfortable. It means swallowing the insult and keep on smiling.

amother

Royalblue

Thu, May 10 2018, 11:53 am

amother wrote:

Fine. You're a great hostess.

Great hostesses reasonably anticipate the needs of their guests.. or ask.

However - if they don't ask - then the protocol of being a good guest kicks in, which means giving host warning of potential dietary problems.

chanchy123

Thu, May 10 2018, 12:56 pm

To the OP I think that when you observe something that is different than the norm in your community It is your responsibility to let the other party know. If the majority of your communitu only est CY and you don't please inform your guests, if you do eat only CY and you suspect your hosts don't please let them know nicely.

I just got back from shopping for Shavuot, while we do have dairy meals on Shabbat and YT for Shavuot I like to buy specialty items. Special cheeses, chocolate, ice cream etc. I would be disappointed if I was restricted to only using more basic items or going to shop in a specialty store for far more expensive items that are many times inferior and even then still be restricted - I wouldn't cancel a guest I had already invited but I would not invite CY guests to a festive dairy meal. Although I do invite CY people for avdaiey shanbat and accommodate. And I live in Israel where many things are the same price.
I dont think many people are worried about the price or availability of CY milk, it is the cheese, cream, ice cream and semi - prepared items (like ravioli or cakes).

We once had a Sfardi teenager for a dairy meal and she couldn't eat the fish and some sides on the same plate. She didn't even realuze Ashkenazim ate dairy and fish together.

My mother is vegetarian but very picky she didn't like telling people she was vegetarian so she wouldn't have to decline vegetable dishes her host prepared specially for her. She is fine with onlu Challa.

OTOH I hate preparing tons of food for guests and then no one eats it.

I guess you can't ever really win. You really should be socially senaitive here whatever side you are on.

amother

Seagreen

Thu, May 10 2018, 2:35 pm

amother wrote:

Totally agree with you. Each side has their job to do!

amother

Bronze

Thu, May 10 2018, 3:11 pm

amother wrote:

What's wrong here is people in kiruv presenting their community's minhag as halacha. Of course you didn't know better. But your teachers did, and they were ok with letting you think that frum people were violating halacha.

I don't agree. For some communities CY is halacha. They are giving over what they know.

I wouldn't criticize the wonderful people doing kiruv. It is impossible to give over a lifetime of indoctrination. Plus that is not their understanding.

amother

Navy

Thu, May 10 2018, 3:19 pm

amother wrote:

The case under discussion was gebrokts on Pesach. No one thinks that's halacha. But even if it were about cholov yisroel, intellectual honesty requires giving the new baal teshuva a full picture of halachic practice. That is, what's done by religious Jews who aren't just like me.

This wasn't a blanket criticism of people who do kiruv. It was directed at those who are perhaps too ignorant, too insecure or too narrow minded to show baalei teshuva the full range of halachic Judaism.

amother

Bronze

Thu, May 10 2018, 3:36 pm

amother wrote:

The people you are calling ignorant, insecure, and narrow minded probably think you are criticizing them because you are ignorant, insecure and narrow minded. Intellectual honesty requires you to acknowledge the argument is two sided.

I stand by my statement that the wonderful kiruv people know what they are doing. Imagine teaching tznius to a BT. You would want them to explain halacha as they know it. And then give over every other option? That's ridiculous and overwhelming.

When explaining Pesach, do you really think Kiruv folks are duty bound to explain every variation? I think getting the BT ready to observe Pesach in a frum manner is a remarkable achievement. The body of knowledge is so vast. I am FFB, and I am still learning.

amother

Gray

Thu, May 10 2018, 4:23 pm

Iymnok wrote:

We are makpid in keilim due to changes in the industry since Rav Moshe's psak was issued. If we ever go visit my parents, we may buy them a couple new pots.
But I wouldn’t assume that a Shavuos invite is a dairy seuda, so I might not ask.

What changes in the industry since R' Moshe's psak are you referring to?

amother

Navy

Fri, May 11 2018, 6:16 am

amother wrote:

Not everything is black and white. It's possible to say, we don't eat x, but other people do, and both are halachically acceptable. Now it's true that some baalei teshuva want blanket rules, but part of responsible kiruv is explaining the complexity of Jewish life. It's really not so hard to say that A,B, and C are off limits for everyone, D is forbidden by one group and required by another, E is preferred by a different group and F is considered praiseworthy by all but not necessary. Make sure to avoid AB and C and go with the flow for the rest.

Iymnok

Fri, May 11 2018, 6:24 am

amother wrote:

What changes in the industry since R' Moshe's psak are you referring to?

They now put a tube in the cow to relieve flatulence. That makes the animal a treifa. Cholov Yisroel milk comes from cows without this procedure. Milk from a treif animal is treif.
I don’t know how widespread this is or much else in the subject.
I live in Israel, so it is a moot point for me.

Raisin

Fri, May 11 2018, 6:39 am

Iymnok wrote:

Plenty of dairy products sold in Israel are imported or made with imported ingredients, from what I can see.

amother

Gray

Fri, May 11 2018, 8:12 am

Iymnok wrote:

Thank you for the information.

amother

Teal

Fri, May 11 2018, 8:27 am

Iymnok wrote:

Pretty sure ou and star k (and many others) wouldn't put a hechsher on treif milk.

amother

Bronze

Fri, May 11 2018, 8:33 am

amother wrote:

It is not that hard with one area, but it seems too hard with an entire way of life. FFBs are not taught that way.

We are taught this is the way frum people do things. There are bright lines we don't cross. An example is that girls wear skirts below their knees. We are never told pants are acceptable or short skirts are ok, and you can still be frum. We are taught this is a violation of Halacha. The same is done with head coverings. We are told that if you get married, you cover your hair. We are not told it is acceptable if you choose not to cover your hair.

I have had to explain over and over again that certain people are frum who have bare legs with short skirts and don't cover their hair.

I don't think it is reasonable to ask someone to give over something that is not their understanding.