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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Shavuos
Invite guest you don't know well do you say cholov stam?
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If I'm inviting guests that don't know me well, I tell them if the food is cholov stam.
yes  
 92%  [ 146 ]
no  
 7%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 158



farm




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 09 2018, 10:53 am
We are makpid on CY but not keilim.
I would ask before accepting a dairy meal invitation. But we're fanatic about meat/chicken too so I'm used to asking before accepting any invitations and I'm immune from shame at this point. I just say (apologetically) that we are a bit nuts and paranoid about kashrus, please can you share where you buy your meat/chicken or we are makpid on CY. I've BH had nice reactions where either the hostess will tell me a local store that's perfect, or ask me where I would like her to shop. My friends are wonderful 😀.
And watergirl, I really think CY is a lot more than 1-2$ more per item and many products (ice cream, yogurt) do not taste as good or last as long.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 09 2018, 10:55 am
I tell you, a CS cake will be much cheaper than a CY cake. I know because I actually have to buy the CY cake when inviting classmates. It isn't about a couple dollars. It's about a cake with normal price vs one from a Jewish shop.
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MiracleMama




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 09 2018, 12:20 pm
amother wrote:
If you invite someone you don't know well for a meal on shavuot or any time and you're serving a milchig meal that's not cholov yisroel, and you don't know if they eat cholov stam, do you tell the guests when you're inviting them or do you assume they'll ask you?


If they are strict about CY I would imagine they are going to ask before accepting an invitation.... BUT to be safe and avoid the remote possibility of guests showing up to your house and then not being able to eat anything, why not tell them? What is the downside of speaking up about it?
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amother
Brown


 

Post Wed, May 09 2018, 12:42 pm
Ok, I said I'd get back on pricing...
1 gallon milk at Costco: $2.19 (you do need to pay an annual membership fee)

1 gallon milk at local non Jewish store: $2.87

1 gallon milk at local Jewish supermarket: $4.69

8 oz block of CY cream cheese: $3.49
Non CY: 2 for $4
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 09 2018, 12:42 pm
Bnei Berak 10 wrote:
Your friend must be a true tzadika. IMO it's too much asking for a 3 day YT without staples like garlic/onion.


She is, and not only for that.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 09 2018, 2:27 pm
Anecdote about pricing: (US, West coast, mixed MO community.)

When DD had her bas mitzva, we had the shul caterer do a dairy meal for seudah slishit. Our community kept CS, with only a couple of people keeping CY, including ourselves.

We wanted to make a seudah that everyone could eat, regardless of where they were holding, so we told the caterer everything had to be CY. She was horrified! I'm not talking about anything fancy. Macaroni and cheese, Cesar salad, bourekas, bumuelos, and cujados.

She told us that a CS menu would run us around $250 for everything, but after she priced out CY it came to over $700 for the same menu. She thought we were crazy. Still, we insisted, so she shrugged and made it anyway.
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amother
Maroon


 

Post Wed, May 09 2018, 2:51 pm
amother wrote:
You may want to ask a sheila on this.

Given that cy is a chumra and embarrassing someone is d'oraisa you may be told if it happens again to eat the food.

Not saying you did anything wrong, but there is for sure a question here on the right thing to do.


If someone served dairy for a meal that most serve meat at, the host should have shared that info because that's not typical. Some people don't hold that cholov yisroel is a chumra- for them it's halacha. I don't want to turn this thread into politics and halacha, but cholov Stam is being makil not the other way around.
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Wed, May 09 2018, 8:12 pm
heidi wrote:
I completely disagree. When I invite someone for a meal I ask if they have any dietary restrictions. I do not offer my standards of kashrut for examination. If you want to tell me, go ahead. Otherwise, eat what is offered. And as a hostess, I would be really upset if a vegetarian showed up without letting me know her food limitations in advance.
When seminary/yeshiva students call to invite themselves I assume they are comfortable eating in my home. If they mention they hold differently for shmitta than we do, I apologize and tell them they wouldn't be comfortable eating in my home.
Obviously for family and close friends whose preferences we are aware of we buy only the things they are comfortable eating.


My coworker knew I was a vegetarian and she was supposed to tell her aunt. She forgot, so I wasn't really to blame. And I am not sure exactly why I got so many "hugs" for posting... The people here confuse me so much...
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Wed, May 09 2018, 8:17 pm
amother wrote:
Excuse yourself because you were a teen.

A hostess can't anticipate things she may not even know about.

Its on you to track how your religious observance varies from the majority.


Whohoohoo. Snarky.

Perhaps you didn't READ my posting where I said I was a baalas teshuvah and had never been exposed to those who gebrokts. It was simply non-existant in my mind as I had been living in a bubble.

When a newcomer to Yiddishkeit begins keeping mitzvos, they have no way of tracking how others live. Everything is brand new. It's like asking someone who has just outgrown a milk allergy to describe the differences between ricotta, blue cheese and mozzarella. If they don't have EXPERIENCE, how can they have any clue?

And I am not sure why there are so many mean people on here. You people would get UPSET at a guest for not eating your food for reasons that were not anticipated by either party? Is your heart so bound up with your food that you'd make a person feel bad for not eating? That's just so wrong.
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Wed, May 09 2018, 8:21 pm
watergirl wrote:
As a teen, its understandable that you made assumptions, but your last paragraph put the onus on the host. How can she honor needs that she doesnt know about? The coworker didnt mention the vegetarian need to the host, theres nothing for her to honor.

We once hosted a seder guest who was gluten intolerant. She was expecting us to provide spelt matza for her. I would have - but she didnt tell us!! There were a number of items that she couldnt eat and she was so mad that I didnt have enough for her. The meal had been set up by her brother-in-law who told me that he would bring matza for her. Not only did he not, but he himself ended up not coming! And yet she was mad at me. And I was clear that we eat gebroks when I spoke with her so that would have been a great opportunity for her to mention to me that she is gluten-free. She didnt, nor did anybody mention it when I asked about dietary issues. super weird.


Dear watergirl, there was a break between paragraphs. In the first part I told a story in which neither party was to blame. It was a misunderstanding. But it left both of us uncomfortable.
I then moved on to the responsibility of a hostess in general, not in regards to my situation. I never, ever asked anyone to conform their standards to meet mine, but if I am hosting, I am going to go out of my way to make sure that I am aware of anything I need to be aware of beforehand and do everything in my power to make my guests feel comfortable. I only mentioned that story to illustrate that if we don't have info beforehand it can cause hurt all around.
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Wed, May 09 2018, 8:23 pm
watergirl wrote:
As a teen, its understandable that you made assumptions, but your last paragraph put the onus on the host. How can she honor needs that she doesnt know about? The coworker didnt mention the vegetarian need to the host, theres nothing for her to honor.

We once hosted a seder guest who was gluten intolerant. She was expecting us to provide spelt matza for her. I would have - but she didnt tell us!! There were a number of items that she couldnt eat and she was so mad that I didnt have enough for her. The meal had been set up by her brother-in-law who told me that he would bring matza for her. Not only did he not, but he himself ended up not coming! And yet she was mad at me. And I was clear that we eat gebroks when I spoke with her so that would have been a great opportunity for her to mention to me that she is gluten-free. She didnt, nor did anybody mention it when I asked about dietary issues. super weird.


And yes, I agree that your story was super weird. She failed at doing her part from A-Z. She had no reason to be upset, certainly not angry.
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amother
Navy


 

Post Wed, May 09 2018, 8:30 pm
amother wrote:
Whohoohoo. Snarky.

Perhaps you didn't READ my posting where I said I was a baalas teshuvah and had never been exposed to those who gebrokts. It was simply non-existant in my mind as I had been living in a bubble.

When a newcomer to Yiddishkeit begins keeping mitzvos, they have no way of tracking how others live. Everything is brand new. It's like asking someone who has just outgrown a milk allergy to describe the differences between ricotta, blue cheese and mozzarella. If they don't have EXPERIENCE, how can they have any clue?

And I am not sure why there are so many mean people on here. You people would get UPSET at a guest for not eating your food for reasons that were not anticipated by either party? Is your heart so bound up with your food that you'd make a person feel bad for not eating? That's just so wrong.


What's wrong here is people in kiruv presenting their community's minhag as halacha. Of course you didn't know better. But your teachers did, and they were ok with letting you think that frum people were violating halacha.
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Wed, May 09 2018, 8:35 pm
amother wrote:
What's wrong here is people in kiruv presenting their community's minhag as halacha. Of course you didn't know better. But your teachers did, and they were ok with letting you think that frum people were violating halacha.


Absolutely not. I'd heard that other communities eat gebrokts and that their minhagim were 100% kosher for them. Not even a question. But in real life I had never yet encountered people who ate gebrokts, so I literally did not think to even ask.
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amother
Navy


 

Post Wed, May 09 2018, 8:56 pm
amother wrote:
Absolutely not. I'd heard that other communities eat gebrokts and that their minhagim were 100% kosher for them. Not even a question. But in real life I had never yet encountered people who ate gebrokts, so I literally did not think to even ask.


Sorry, this is still irresponsible on the part of the kiruv folks. They should have let you know when you can be flexible. They should also have informed you that as a fresh BT, you aren't bound by their community's minhagim. Once you join a community, you can choose to take on its observances, but at the start of your journey you should be encouraged to get to know different halachic ways of life. (Ok rant over, back to the thread.)
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Bnei Berak 10




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 10 2018, 12:41 am
amother wrote:
Ok, I said I'd get back on pricing...
1 gallon milk at Costco: $2.19 (you do need to pay an annual membership fee)

1 gallon milk at local non Jewish store: $2.87

1 gallon milk at local Jewish supermarket: $4.69

8 oz block of CY cream cheese: $3.49
Non CY: 2 for $4


Black on white. We are speaking more or less of a 50% additional cost. It is a big difference indeed.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 10 2018, 3:25 am
amother wrote:
Some people don't hold that cholov yisroel is a chumra- for them it's halacha.


Yeah, well. Some also "need" yoshon or something else. It's not for others to guess, it's for them to make it clear. I said that as someone who has real reasons not to eat some things. Also lol that you don't plan on hurting when you clearly start the hostilities just after saying you don't want to make it political. Happily living real here, and sans CY, may it last!
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amother
Beige


 

Post Thu, May 10 2018, 3:55 am
Iymnok wrote:
We are makpid in keilim due to changes in the industry since Rav Moshe's psak was issued. If we ever go visit my parents, we may buy them a couple new pots.
But I wouldn’t assume that a Shavuos invite is a dairy seuda, so I might not ask.

Ask Rov. I think from chalav stam to change to chalav yisrael you don't need new pots ' but ask. I think the problem is by other upgrades.
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Thu, May 10 2018, 7:15 am
amother wrote:
Whohoohoo. Snarky.

Perhaps you didn't READ my posting where I said I was a baalas teshuvah and had never been exposed to those who gebrokts. It was simply non-existant in my mind as I had been living in a bubble.

When a newcomer to Yiddishkeit begins keeping mitzvos, they have no way of tracking how others live. Everything is brand new. It's like asking someone who has just outgrown a milk allergy to describe the differences between ricotta, blue cheese and mozzarella. If they don't have EXPERIENCE, how can they have any clue?

And I am not sure why there are so many mean people on here. You people would get UPSET at a guest for not eating your food for reasons that were not anticipated by either party? Is your heart so bound up with your food that you'd make a person feel bad for not eating? That's just so wrong.


I wasn't addressing what happened when you were a teen. Stuff happens. I was addressing the conclusion you drew from the experience.

It could have been - I've learned something today, not everyone holds like I do. Not only that, not everyone is aware enough about the way I hold to even ask a question. What I hold appears to be more limiting. Next time I'm invited for a meal (or get myself invited for a meal) I'll know to communicate my needs to my host, or ask my host if she holds like I do.
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Thu, May 10 2018, 7:26 am
amother wrote:
Dear watergirl, there was a break between paragraphs. In the first part I told a story in which neither party was to blame. It was a misunderstanding. But it left both of us uncomfortable.
I then moved on to the responsibility of a hostess in general, not in regards to my situation. I never, ever asked anyone to conform their standards to meet mine, but if I am hosting, I am going to go out of my way to make sure that I am aware of anything I need to be aware of beforehand and do everything in my power to make my guests feel comfortable. I only mentioned that story to illustrate that if we don't have info beforehand it can cause hurt all around.


You recognize that this is logically impossible, right?
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amother
Mint


 

Post Thu, May 10 2018, 7:29 am
amother wrote:
If someone served dairy for a meal that most serve meat at, the host should have shared that info because that's not typical. Some people don't hold that cholov yisroel is a chumra- for them it's halacha. I don't want to turn this thread into politics and halacha, but cholov Stam is being makil not the other way around.


I agree the host should have said.

But on your other point, we once asked a sheila about eating at someone's hinge who uses hashgachas we don't hold by.

The Rav asked of the people were shomrei mitzvot who ask shailot about kashrus. They were. He told us we can eat all the food at their house. They had a psak that that hashgacha was kosher, when we were in their home we were to accept it.
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