How does this "no internet access" thing work?

Clarissa

Thu, Nov 08 2007, 9:48 pm

The other thread about schools wanting families to have no internet access got me wondering. Don't kids use the internet for schoolwork these days? My son uses it for all sorts of research for school projects, including those involving current events, geography, science, etc. I know all of these things, and more, can be researched in a library, but with school days getting longer and packed with more subjects and work (especially Jewish schools), they don't have a lot of time to hang out at the library. In my day, everyone had encyclopedias at home, but these days kids often use the internet as their encyclopedia, as there's a vast amount of information there.

Even as I try to learn more about how do handle various halachic issues, I often run right to the internet, to read up on things, so I know it's useful for children.

Also, if people don't have televisions, don't they read online newspapers, to get caught up on what's going on in the world? How do people deal with no internet and no tv, if they want to know about a political situation or something like that?

Do these schools have computers, so that kids can learn to use them? Are the kids allowed internet access at school, and enough time to do research while there?

I've been wondering about this, so I thought this would be the right place to ask.

Bzgirl

Thu, Nov 08 2007, 10:10 pm

Well, well, Where to start...first of all the communities where there is a "no internet policy" they mean no internet....There are no computers available at school to use, and librarys are frowned upon.
Basically the kids are not given assignments that need "internet research" Most schools have a resource room loaded with literature and encyclopedias to help them out when they have a project or something. About catching up with the news, most local jewish newspapers have all the news thats going on, and majority of the people in "no internet communities" still listen to the radio for local weather, traffic and news. So they're not totally amish lol just protecting their kids a bit more from the outside world.
I hope this clears things up for you.

Mama Bear

Thu, Nov 08 2007, 10:32 pm

Clarissa, we have the frum newspapers, in both English and Yiddish, and we do listen to the radio.

and as bzgirl said, they dont get assignements that require research. (although I've been called by mothers in the community when their girls get an 'extra credit' assignment, which is usually trivia that I look up on wikipedia. I'm thinking, somewhere down the line, of becoming an 'internet consultant' for a small fee for those people who dont want to have internet in their homes.)

Mama Bear

Thu, Nov 08 2007, 11:02 pm

I disagree Hannah - people dont want to bring internet into their homes because they dont want their children to use it. But they still have a need for it. I GLADLy do it for them. Sometimes someone needs to look something up on Childrens Place. Or book an airline ticket. Or wahtever. But they dont want to have the internet IN THEIR HOMES. So instead of going down to the public library to do it themselves, if theyre willing to pay someone else to do it, why not? I can understand them VERY WELL; it's like calling up a freiend who does listen to the radio to find out election results when you yourself have banished the radio from the house. EVRYONE knows that the internet is FULL OF GOOD, but also very very risky. So they dont want to take the risk but sometimes need the good.

There was a similar thread on h.com the other week, and I was biting my tongue HARD since I'm currently on h.com strike, but wanted to say exactly the same thing there.

Ruchel

Thu, Nov 08 2007, 11:12 pm

Quote:

people dont want to bring internet into their homes because they dont want their children to use it

filter? or a password on the connexion/comp?

Quote:

EVRYONE knows that the internet is FULL OF GOOD, but also very very risky.

but would a good Jew be willing to inflict that risk on another? use him as an "internet [gentile]"?
Internet is only risky if you allow it to be! I have heard of something called reportyoureyes, and I can say no normal person would go to inappropriate sites with that! Unless they are deeply masochistic.

It seems that your strike is more painful for you than for them. Maybe you should consider stopping it - but they'll make fun.

chavamom

Thu, Nov 08 2007, 11:19 pm

Bzgirl wrote:

Most schools have a resource room loaded with literature and encyclopedias to help them out when they have a project or something.

Halavai this were true in "most schools". The "frummer" school some of my girls go to just had teachers conferences. The history teacher told me he can't assign the research projects b/c the school library is not a library (not much there) and there are people who won't let their kids go to the public library. MAKES ME CRAZY.

Last edited by chavamom on Thu, Nov 08 2007, 11:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

chestnut

Fri, Nov 09 2007, 12:46 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

So instead of going down to the public library to do it themselves, if theyre willing to pay someone else to do it, why not?

what if they wouldn't pay, but kept on asking you for favors?

I dont' think I would like it. it's one thing to do it from time to time, and something that doesn't require a major search (like finding it on wiki), but something other to do it pretty often.

I do hear both arguments, though - "I'm on the internet anyway, why not help them" and "being an internet [gentile]"

triLcat

Sat, Nov 10 2007, 2:49 pm

Maybe it's because of my hashkafa and upbringing, but I really have a problem with banning the internet. The internet is not like television, you have control over what you see.

In terms of children, I know a few people who simply have their computer out in the living room, open and available for everyone to see.

It means that they can check if kids are doing homework, chatting, playing games, or chas vshalom, doing something they shouldn't.

It also strongly discourages doing something they're not allowed since they have no hope of hiding it.

I think that there is an interest in certain communities in keeping people uninformed and uneducated, and I find that very troubling.

mimivan

Sat, Nov 10 2007, 3:56 pm

Ruchel wrote:

Quote:

people dont want to bring internet into their homes because they dont want their children to use it

filter? or a password on the connexion/comp?

Quote:

EVRYONE knows that the internet is FULL OF GOOD, but also very very risky.

Right. I don't understand either but commend motherbear for her generosity..Still it wouldn't be for me.
I guess its like Chabad and the non-kosher animals. While I wouldn't go around and tell every Jewish parent that it isn't so great to be giving their children non-kosher animals to play with, I felt very ambivalent once when dh gave a teddy bear my mother gave us (she forgot...not Chabad) to a guy in Collel. While someone may not proselytize, doesn't it make sense that someone should feel what is good for their children is good enough for every Jewish child? For instance, I wouldn't buy a bear for a non-Lubav kid, but at the same time, I wouldn't preach at them and expect them to take on my minhagim.

I think it is a similar situation.

peach

Sun, Nov 11 2007, 1:44 pm

I agree with mama bear. she has it anyways, as apparently she made her own decision about that. Looking up something on wikipedia for a neighbor, or sending an e-mail for a friend, etc. will not cause her to be nichshal.

Re: the argument of not having internet at home: Even though pple put it in the LR, or have a filter.....there are still many many children that have gone off the deep end due to internet. Kids who are computer-savvy can get around passwords and filters. Unlimited internet is a very dangerous weapon in the hands of any child. I shudder to think of when it is used by a teenage boy with raging hormones.... (and I know REAL stories).

Ruchel

Sun, Nov 11 2007, 3:41 pm

There are undeletable historics, stuff that takes screen captures every 30 secs, stuff that shows you where the person went & even what she typed. That + filter + computer in the living room is pretty secure. Especially if you are computer savvy too, and test it.
Not to mention, the key is not a filter it's education. If you make it the forbidden fruit for no reason they'll do it elsewhere.

mimivan

Sun, Nov 11 2007, 4:05 pm

Ruchel:
and to the argument "they'll just do it elsewhere" a person could argue even if one knows they will probably do it elsewhere, why "contaminate" a Jewish home with unfiltered internet??

I do have internet obviously, but I've heard this said and it is food for thought.