Cost of Jewish Funeral

SixOfWands

Wed, May 16 2018, 2:00 pm

amother wrote:

What was the religion that was "baptizing" Jews after they died, some crazy Mormon sect? Because that's what their God says?

You're acting like you know better than she does, about what she wants, about her most personal wants. It's pious and rude, IMHO.

It wasn't a crazy Mormon sect. It was the main Mormon movement, baptizing Holocaust victims. If it makes you feel better, they also posthumously baptized Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton's grandparents, and the Queen Mother.

AFAIK, Jews don't proselytize to others, but are allowed to proselytize to other Jews. So halachically, no issue with what she's doing. Not sure how I feel about it at a personal level, though.

daughterofgod

Wed, May 16 2018, 2:02 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Really>
I'm totally open to hearing why? In a non bashing way for either of us, K?
I'm starting to doubt myself. Maybe the way I was raised was simply wrong. Can you clarify why it's not necessary to do what I'm doing?

amother

Burgundy

Wed, May 16 2018, 2:02 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

My halachic question: must she do it? What compels it? Why can't she mind her own business and leave this person alone?

ora_43

Wed, May 16 2018, 2:05 pm

amother wrote:

You've been here a month made less than 30 posts and you're asking me what I'm doing here and why I'm amother? Oy.

I'm a married frum woman who doesn't feel like sharing who I am, please don't accuse me of not being frum. It's unseemly and unkind, and may be against the rules.

You just called her "pious and rude" and compared her to "some crazy Mormon." In a thread where she was asking for funeral costs, not debate.

But yeah, how dare she suggest you're new here. That's just not nice.

(btw since you seem to have forgotten, using the amother feature for personal attacks is definitely against the rules)

amother

Burgundy

Wed, May 16 2018, 2:16 pm

ora_43 wrote:

Apologies to her and everyone else, I've been here since 2012 so I do in fact know about personal attacks.

But why do this? I remember when I wasn't frum, a whole lot of well-meaning people trying to constantly bring more Judaism into my life. As though we could not be friends, or have coffee, without trying to make me more religious. I felt it rude and pious, I was just fine and didn't need people telling me they were better than I was.

SixOfWands

Wed, May 16 2018, 2:18 pm

amother wrote:

My halachic question: must she do it? What compels it? Why can't she mind her own business and leave this person alone?

I'm no rabbi, but I doubt that she's obligated to convince someone to have a halachic funeral. If we see our secular neighbors walk to their cars on Shabbat, we're not obligated to try to convince them not to get in. And we're not obligated to hang out outside the local treyf eatery to convince Jews not to enter. So why would this be any different?

amother

Burgundy

Wed, May 16 2018, 2:25 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Correct. And in my opinion it would be distasteful to do so. So why the insistence?

SixOfWands

Wed, May 16 2018, 2:28 pm

amother wrote:

Correct. And in my opinion it would be distasteful to do so. So why the insistence?

Because there's no do-over.

If I eat treyf today, I can do tshuva tomorrow.

If I'm cremated, that's it. No halachically correct funeral, ever.

And because there's a difference between random people on the street, and people you care about.

I wouldn't do it. It makes me a little uncomfortable. But I get why she would.

keym

Wed, May 16 2018, 2:45 pm

And theres a big difference between guilting someone into doing something and doing what op is doing. Which is doing the legwork to figure out all the information and possibly covering some costs herself.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, May 16 2018, 3:04 pm

keym wrote:

I never said she was guilting. I feel that while well meaning, she's doing this whole "make someone more Jewish" thing that when I wasn't frum I found very, very insulting.

amother

Coral

Wed, May 16 2018, 3:11 pm

What's the limit? Should we let people commit suicide? Every country has laws, and every religion, too! Do your best, try to help, so you don't regret. Anonymous because not caring for the "cool" crowd to harass.

SYA

Wed, May 16 2018, 3:51 pm

Here is a link that explains the background of why cremation is forbidden.

https://www.chabad.org/library.....n.htm

There is no harm in discussing this with your relative. It is not like other mitzvos where one can do teshuva. Cremation can not be undone.

dina125

Wed, May 16 2018, 3:53 pm

I think it's a big mitzvah what you are doing - kol yisrael areivinm ze lazeh and I envy much your merit in doing it! She's your neighbor after all & it sounds like she respects you if she's willing to hear you out & go forward. I think it's amazing that you're taking the initiative like this. May there be many more like you!

amother

Babypink

Wed, May 16 2018, 4:04 pm

amother wrote:

Totally different.

The assumption is that a person who is trying to commit suicide is unwell and not able to make a good choice.

Interfering with someones very reasonable post life choices - to the point of offering personal cash to influence a decision, feels off.

dina125

Wed, May 16 2018, 4:24 pm

amother wrote:

I personally feel that a Jew to a Jew has every right to respectfully give over our joint heritage. I don't think we should adopt a "live and let live" stance. Jews are brothers and sisters and I think the care OP is showing her neighbor is exemplary. What if it was your brother saying he chooses to be cremated after death - would you not at least say something? I'm not saying we should force our beliefs on others who are less religious than us, but talking to them about them because this is something that belongs to them too is an exceptionally kind thing to do.

amother

Babypink

Wed, May 16 2018, 4:29 pm

dina125 wrote:

I'm all for a religious discussion, education etc. Its the offering of personal money thats bothersome me. (its also a bit irresponsible here because OP seemed to offer without knowing the cost).

(It remains comparable to stepping in a suicide situation IMHO).

However - I may however be misunderstanding the narrative here.

cbsp

Wed, May 16 2018, 6:57 pm

amother wrote:

Cremation for a Jew is not a "reasonable post life choice."

OP, tizki l'mitzvos.