Jigsaw puzzles on Shabbos or Yom Tov

Rugelech

Wed, May 16 2018, 12:39 pm

I was brought up with the principle that jigsaw puzzles are Muktza on Shabbos because you are forming a picture when joining the pieces together.
Recently I heard from a close friend that it used to be Osur but now it is Muttar to do puzzles on Shabbos/Yom Tov.
I love doing puzzles so if anybody has actually heard from a reliable source that it is o.k. to do it, can you advise who has said that it is o.k.
Thank you

Zisskeit

Wed, May 16 2018, 12:55 pm

"There's a machlokes ha Poskim", but you're not surprised, right?!

Many poskim hold that it is 100% מותר provided the pieces don't form words when joined (koseiv) or words destroyed/erased (mocheik), and as long as you don't select out the pieces you dont want from those you DO want, or categorize them (boreir). If you wanna be really, really shtark, read on: Sh”t Or Letzion 2:45:6 writes that it’s not considered koseiv since it’s only for the purposes of a game (and it’s temporary). So too there’s no issue of Borer since one takes the pieces one wants and uses them immediately. This is also the opinion of Sh”t Beer Moshe 6:26, and Rav Chaim Pinchas Scheinberg quoted in "Children in Halacha" (pg. 140), and Rav Moshe HaLevi in Menuchat Ahava (vol 3, 22:16). However, Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 16:23 forbids if the pieces fit tight together (interlock). Similarly, Shalmei Yehuda (pg 90) quoting Rav Elyashiv and Sefer Tiltulei Shabbat (pg 25; Rabbi Yisrael Bodner) write that it’s forbidden.

Hope this helps!

Last edited by Zisskeit on Wed, May 16 2018, 1:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Pewter

Wed, May 16 2018, 12:59 pm

Ruchel wrote:

We take apart before the end.
Sefardim are often more machmir shabbes wise, as for eruv etc

Interesting that you say this. As an Ashkenazi who married sefardi, I find that the sefardi halacha is so much less machmir when it comes to hilchos shabbos, especially regarding bishul. Regarding this halacha specifically, my Ashkenazi family does not do puzzles, while my sefardi dh said it's not a problem.

seeker

Wed, May 16 2018, 1:14 pm

Interesting, I definitely remember learning that it's OK for children but not for adults. I'll try to remember where. I figured something like that (children and not adults? and recreational) would have different opinions, I'm just surprised that every single reply so far was the opposite. I did consider asking a LOR about exceptions for mental health (puzzles can be very relaxing, and just the right combination of mindful but not mentally strenuous. For those long Shabboses if you're home alone and had enough of reading) and I'm sure they would have OK'd it, but I never did get around to asking.

Ruchel

Wed, May 16 2018, 2:35 pm

amother wrote:

Interesting. My kids are allowed games their friends aren't

Miri7

Wed, May 16 2018, 5:19 pm

Zisskeit wrote:

Huh- I thought sorting only applied to naturally-occuring things. So you can't sort acorns but you can sort marbles. We do puzzles on Shabbat and sort out the edge pieces from the center pieces.

doctorima

Wed, May 16 2018, 5:53 pm

Miri7 wrote:

Huh- I thought sorting only applied to naturally-occuring things. So you can't sort acorns but you can sort marbles. We do puzzles on Shabbat and sort out the edge pieces from the center pieces.

I seem to recall learning differently. There are potential issues of borer (selecting) when putting away utensils, which aren't naturally occurring. I believe it also applies to clothes, books, etc., in which case puzzle pieces could certainly be a potential issue as well. Did anyone else learn differently?

animeme

Wed, May 16 2018, 6:03 pm

doctorima wrote:

Same. And I also learned that you can't do the puzzle if you're not planning to take it apart. Likewise, I learned you can't build a lego model either if you aren't going to take it apart. Someone else I knew was taught that in both cases, they can do it, bit can't put the last piece. (I'm assuming because of makeh b'patish.)

imasoftov

Wed, May 16 2018, 10:29 pm

Rugelech wrote:

"Assur" and "Muktzeh" are not synonyms.

seeker

Thu, May 17 2018, 12:30 am

Miri7 wrote:

Huh- I thought sorting only applied to naturally-occuring things. So you can't sort acorns but you can sort marbles. We do puzzles on Shabbat and sort out the edge pieces from the center pieces.

Is it possible you're thinking of tochen - grinding? Grinding applies to things that grow (fruits, vegetables, herbs) but not to non-plant items (e.g. breaking bread into crumbs) IIRC.

And Zisskeit, thank you for sharing those sources! Not sure how I didn't see your post before I posted, maybe I had the page open already before yours went up.

myname1

Thu, May 17 2018, 2:55 am

seeker wrote:

Is it possible you're thinking of tochen - grinding? Grinding applies to things that grow (fruits, vegetables, herbs) but not to non-plant items (e.g. breaking bread into crumbs) IIRC.

I think I recall that there is an opinion that borer only applies to food- so not to books or marbles or puzzle pieces.