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Eczema
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amother
Azure


 

Post Wed, May 16 2018, 11:13 pm
Yes, probiotics can help real eczema, sometimes, but she needs the right diagnosis before cutting out foods, starting probiotics, etc. Her baby baby has terrible eczema and has been on many different creams, presumably steroids. I am venturing to guess that he has steroid damage and not the original eczema. Eczema, historically, before steroids were invented and abused, was relatively mild. It itched like hell, but wasn't "very bad." The "very bad" patients you see today are most often those who have Red Skin Syndrome, the rashes worsening over time from the real eczema to steroid damage.

Here is the historical textbook definition of eczema:

Classical atopic dermatitis as described in Rook’s Textbook of Dermatology (1968) presents as the following:

Itching is the cardinal symptom, the lesions consist of discrete papules (prurigo), half the cases clear up by the age of 18 months, the childhood phase typically involves the flexures of the elbow and knee, lichenification is common, the adult phase manifests itself as essentially similar to that in later childhood with lichenifications in the flexitures, erythoderma is very uncommon.
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Frumwithallergies




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 12:33 am
From personal experience (DH, myself, DC):
Bathing : not every day (clean for hygiene daily); salt baths for babies/young children since salt has anti-bacterial properties and is helpful to avoid secondary infection. Avoid hot baths. Put cortisone cream in very thin layer only on key areas, then smear hydrating cream everywhere else and on top of the cortisone.

100% cotton clothes / stretchies.

Atarax for those days / weeks when the baby scratches so much that s/he bleeds.

Bleach baths can help also, but can be messy....

Eczema is often genetic, not always auto-immune. Most of my kids developed food allergies as their eczema improved.

Run all linens and clothes through an extra rinse cycle.

Use a humidifier in the winter if your house if too dry.

These are just some of my successful techniques. Whatever your experiences, I wish you hatzlacha rabba and Refua shleima!
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amother
Azure


 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 12:46 am
Frumwithallergies wrote:
From personal experience (DH, myself, DC):
Bathing : not every day (clean for hygiene daily); salt baths for babies/young children since salt has anti-bacterial properties and is helpful to avoid secondary infection. Avoid hot baths. Put cortisone cream in very thin layer only on key areas, then smear hydrating cream everywhere else and on top of the cortisone.

100% cotton clothes / stretchies.

Atarax for those days / weeks when the baby scratches so much that s/he bleeds.

Bleach baths can help also, but can be messy....

Eczema is often genetic, not always auto-immune. Most of my kids developed food allergies as their eczema improved.

Run all linens and clothes through an extra rinse cycle.

Use a humidifier in the winter if your house if too dry.

These are just some of my successful techniques. Whatever your experiences, I wish you hatzlacha rabba and Refua shleima!


I second the humidifier! Very, very important.

As far as creams go, OP. Avoid lotions that are water-based on your baby's skin. It will only make him more irritated. As this poster mentioned, hydrating CREAMS. Vaseline is the most tolerated, Aquaphor better for hydration, but not always tolerated, and Eucerin even better, but even less tolerated. See what he can handle. Here's where Balmex comes in: put a little Balmex on top of emollient when he is very uncomfortable. It is high in Zinc, which is an anti-inflammatory. It will reduce itch and burn and provide comfort.

BTW a peer-reviewed study looked at 20+ bleach bath studies and they came to the conclusion that bleach does absolutely nothing to prevent eczema flares. It is useful only in the case the child is become frequently infected, with the clinical presentation of infection: localized swelling, puss and pain. Regular eczema does not qualify.

I actually find that very warm water is actually more comforting and hydrating for rashes than bathing infrequently, as long as you smear a good emollient afterwards.
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Rutabaga




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 2:04 am
Aveeno baby eczema moisturizing cream helps my kids a lot. It's better as a preventative than a cure though.
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zgp




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 6:44 am
Thanks so much to all who posted in. I don't think this is a steroid reaction because I have been super careful with steroids. Most of the creams I have been trying have been more on the natural spectrum. Aveeno only helped when I used it seven times a day plus which is just too difficult at this point. I tried various aloe vera based creams which did not help. The only one that really helped was tevaderm which is a steroid but I only used it when it was really bad and then only on specific areas for two days at a time. The main area is underneath his chin spreading down all the way to his belly button. He also has behind his ears and underneath his arms. He has already been in hospital twice with cellulitis on his leg - nowhere near the breakout but then they used oral antibiotics.
I have stopped using any kinds of soap and only use a special bath oil. I am using a laundry detergent which is specialised for eczema without conditioner at all. He wears only 100% cotton with bibs to keep his chin dry. The interesting thing is that he is not scratching himself. When it is really bad you can see he is uncomfortable but most of the time he is not all that bothered by it.
About ten days ago, I stopped using all creams apart from vaseline as a moisturiser just to see if it made a difference. I can see no difference with or without the creams so am not going back to them.
I tried probiotics originally when he had thrush (which is when all this started) and that was when the whole thing flared up. At that point I had not used anything on his skin at all - I was sure it was just a rash. After 24 hrs on probiotics he looked like he was burnt from head to toe so I rushed him to a dermatologist. That was five months ago. it has been up and down since them. twice more I tried the probiotics. It is the one thing that definitely makes it worse. Allergy testing they wont do at this age because they say it is not accurate.
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fmt4




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 7:26 am
amother wrote:
I think I ended that too abruptly.

I explained how damage happens, but I didn't explain how it presents.

Basically, when a person stops using steroids, a rash will appear within 7-10 days if they have steroid damage (called Red Skin Syndrome). The rash will itch fiercely, then dry out and flake off. And then it may or may not clear up a bit before the next round hits. It is called "flaring."

The first few months, typically about 2 1/2 to 4 months, there is a drug washout period, or as we call it, "the honeymoon period." During that time there will be flaring, but it won't be horrific. All of a sudden, when the washout period is over, there is a huge flare up where the rashes start spreading. It can look like a very bad sunburn, or even like someone took a vat of boiling water and poured it over a person's head, or arm, etc. -- or even whole body.
The skin may be hot to the touch and there may be swelling and oozing.

At this point, everyone gets scared, and if they don't know what they are dealing with -- they usually end up in the ER, told that they have cellulitis and need strong antibiotics and prednisone and maybe even wet wraps.

But if the patient has steroid damage, this is the normal procession of events. And using more steroids restarts the whole damage to the body over again, from the beginning, increasing the damage.

What they need is comfort techniques and comfort medications and a knowledgeable doctor to oversee the withdrawal.

Every single person across the board with steroid damage heals, no matter how bad their so-called "eczema" is. For some it takes short, some takes longer. But they heal.


NO NO NO NO.

DO NOT do this to your baby. This is a very controversial treatment. Some people spend years and years “recovering” from so-called “red skin syndrome.” Meanwhile they put their entire lives on hold because their discomfort is so unbearable. And this is only for adults- for children it is unthinkable!! We tried it for two weeks with our baby- two weeks of putting our child through absolute hell, screaming hysterically all night and scratching his entire body RAW. Then we realized what a horrible thing we were doing and stopped.
Instead we went on the Dr. Aron regimen. It’s been nine months and his eczema is sooo much better. PM me for details.
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amother
Bisque


 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 7:35 am
As uncomfortable. as it sounds, if the eczema is bothering you and the baby, you might want to pursue skin testing your baby. I ended up doing it and found out she was allergic to eggs and soy. If you don’t skin test, you could do an elimination diet. The allergist actually told me that egg allergy is even more common than dairy in infantwhen they don’t have gas or colic. Dairy allergy usually but not always causes gastro discomfort for the baby. Kids often outgrow these allergies that they have as babies. And her eczema cleared up when I stopped eating these foods.
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amother
Azure


 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 8:29 am
zgp wrote:
Thanks so much to all who posted in. I don't think this is a steroid reaction because I have been super careful with steroids. Most of the creams I have been trying have been more on the natural spectrum. Aveeno only helped when I used it seven times a day plus which is just too difficult at this point. I tried various aloe vera based creams which did not help. The only one that really helped was tevaderm which is a steroid but I only used it when it was really bad and then only on specific areas for two days at a time. The main area is underneath his chin spreading down all the way to his belly button. He also has behind his ears and underneath his arms. He has already been in hospital twice with cellulitis on his leg - nowhere near the breakout but then they used oral antibiotics.
I have stopped using any kinds of soap and only use a special bath oil. I am using a laundry detergent which is specialised for eczema without conditioner at all. He wears only 100% cotton with bibs to keep his chin dry. The interesting thing is that he is not scratching himself. When it is really bad you can see he is uncomfortable but most of the time he is not all that bothered by it.
About ten days ago, I stopped using all creams apart from vaseline as a moisturiser just to see if it made a difference. I can see no difference with or without the creams so am not going back to them.
I tried probiotics originally when he had thrush (which is when all this started) and that was when the whole thing flared up. At that point I had not used anything on his skin at all - I was sure it was just a rash. After 24 hrs on probiotics he looked like he was burnt from head to toe so I rushed him to a dermatologist. That was five months ago. it has been up and down since them. twice more I tried the probiotics. It is the one thing that definitely makes it worse. Allergy testing they wont do at this age because they say it is not accurate.


Dear OP,

There was something that I didn't address and I now see I should. Many, many people believe that they have never used steroids, but have, in fact, used TONS.
You see, natural sounds amazing, but there is one problem:
There is no regulation over that natural market, so scammers will go to the natural market and market their creams as "herbal" but in reality, many of them will use potent steroids in the cream and NOT LABEL IT.

There was a study done in which, if I remember correctly, 24 "natural" creams were tested in the lab and 17 turned out to have steroids. Things are getting pulled from the market every day for having unlabeled steroids. In fact, I know many, many people with steroid damage that never touched steroids from the doctor. They only used so-called natural products.

That's not to say that all natural products are bad -- some of them are great, just we have no way to distinguish between the good ones and the dangerous ones as there are no regulations on the market there.

Here is just ONE example: https://www.thestar.com/news/c......html

What you are describing sounds typical of steroid damage.
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amother
Azure


 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 8:35 am
The Dr. Aron regime is just using tons of steroids and antibiotics. His patients end up relapsing and going to Dr. Rapaport and suffering even worse.

With steroid withdrawal, yes, it is hell, but there are things to make it more bearable.

With Dr. Aron, the patient feels better in the short term and then suffers in the long run.

With steroid withdrawal, it is very difficult, but the patient HEALS and the rashes go away permanently. I speak from experience. Not just anecdotal, but from seeing people go through the process. Three people in my own family either healed or are pretty darn close to the end.

In addition, I know about 150 people who stopped the steroids last year. Most are long term users so it is taking longer, but those who used short term have already healed.
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zgp




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 9:07 am
I am a bit confused. If it is steroid damage, what do you do about it?
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blueboys




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 9:08 am
My 5 year old had very bad eczema from when he was 6 weeks old. We did allergy testing & even after going of all those foods or was still bad. Tried every cream, but nothing worked. The only thing that gave him some short term relief was cortisone which we used very infrequently.
Since June of last year (after I spoke to "Skin Healing Gemach" & she told me what "Azure" is saying) we stopped the cortisone completely. What we did was: every morning & every night after the bath we put a&d ointment & on top a thick layer of balmex. This really helped heal his eczema. Later on when his skin started becoming better I would put a thick layer at night & a thinner one in the morning. Now I put thin layer at night & hardly anything in the morning.
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amother
Silver


 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 9:12 am
zgp wrote:
Thanks so much to all who posted in. I don't think this is a steroid reaction because I have been super careful with steroids. Most of the creams I have been trying have been more on the natural spectrum. Aveeno only helped when I used it seven times a day plus which is just too difficult at this point. I tried various aloe vera based creams which did not help. The only one that really helped was tevaderm which is a steroid but I only used it when it was really bad and then only on specific areas for two days at a time. The main area is underneath his chin spreading down all the way to his belly button. He also has behind his ears and underneath his arms. He has already been in hospital twice with cellulitis on his leg - nowhere near the breakout but then they used oral antibiotics.
I have stopped using any kinds of soap and only use a special bath oil. I am using a laundry detergent which is specialised for eczema without conditioner at all. He wears only 100% cotton with bibs to keep his chin dry. The interesting thing is that he is not scratching himself. When it is really bad you can see he is uncomfortable but most of the time he is not all that bothered by it.
About ten days ago, I stopped using all creams apart from vaseline as a moisturiser just to see if it made a difference. I can see no difference with or without the creams so am not going back to them.
I tried probiotics originally when he had thrush (which is when all this started) and that was when the whole thing flared up. At that point I had not used anything on his skin at all - I was sure it was just a rash. After 24 hrs on probiotics he looked like he was burnt from head to toe so I rushed him to a dermatologist. That was five months ago. it has been up and down since them. twice more I tried the probiotics. It is the one thing that definitely makes it worse. Allergy testing they wont do at this age because they say it is not accurate.


This is NOT TRUE!!!! As I said, my child was correctly tests and diagnosed at less than two month old. Find a different allergist. A child whose eczema does not respond to topical treatment really has something going on inside that is causing the eczema. Until you take care of that, it won't go away.
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amother
Azure


 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 9:30 am
zgp wrote:
I am a bit confused. If it is steroid damage, what do you do about it?


The thing about steroid damage is there is only ONE thing that will prevent healing: More steroids. Each and every exposure will start the whole process over again, from the beginning.

The only way to heal is to STOP the steroids and be extremely vigilant that he doesn't come into contact with any more topical or systemic (oral/injection) steroids, be they from the doctor or so-called "natural" healers.

But, yes, the process is absolute hell, especially if you do not have medical guidance.

Everything goes downhill for a good long while, with the rashes spreading, flaking, oozing, burning. What that is, is the blood vessels are hyper-dilating, sending out a huge rush of blood to the skin. They have to learn how to "behave" again. And they do. But it takes time.
There is also nerve damage. That causes a burning sensation.

But, BH, there are things to make the withdrawal easier. And everyone who stays away from steroids and questionable products heal.

And another thing re: Dr. Aron: He has never published any medical studies, because it is just the same old steroids and antibiotics used by other doctors. Most of his patients use very heavily for a long time, and then they taper down, but they do flare up again (as is to be expected) and then they have to use more steroids to get it under control... And it doesn't always work.

In Dr. Aron's own words:
12/01/2015 TREATMENT OF THE HANDS
Certain areas, particularly the hands, prove may not respond as favourably as others.

This is because the cream does not remain on the hands for very long and in consequence frequent applications are required, often as six times daily. Secondly, it is very easy to scratch the hands, so trauma may be a factor in aggravating the condition. Contact factors act as triggers. These exposures are common in children who are in day care where they may touch materials such as paints and glues. These should be avoided and specific instructions may have to be given to daycare personnel in this regard. In some, my standard mixture may be too mild for resistant areas, in which case I prescribe a less dilute compound for localised use in the short term.


As for Dr. Rapaport, he has been published in seven medical journals, and one of the studies was done in conjunction with the head of Mr. Sinai dermtology, Dr. Lebwohl.
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amother
Azure


 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 9:42 am
Just one more thing on the topic of Dr. Rapaport vs. Dr. Aron...

I found this blog from a woman who had withdrawn from steroids but gave up along the way and went to Dr. Aron. http://catrstephens.blogspot.com/2015/ In the end, she saw it didn't work. Posting relevant sections of her journey, starting with her initial excitement and then when reality hits...

Saturday, August 15, 2015

Dr. Aron Richard-2 Weeks
I'm just finishing up my 2nd week of his treatment and things are still going great.
I have a small patch on my palm that bothers me here and there but other wise things are great.

I get the occasional stinger but other then that I'm itch free. I sleep through the night now and I don't tear myself to pieces.

I think this is going to be the way to send this into remission.
I need to work on eating better again.


Monday, September 7, 2015

3 Year Anniversary-Sorta
I am writing this blog on what would've been my 3 year anniversary of Topical Steroid Withdrawal. But I had a bit of a detour to take. With the MRSA threatening my life I had no choice but to use steroids. I fought MRSA for over 6 months and accumulated over $5000 in debt because of my health. And last week I received ANOTHER BILL for $225. That's a whole other story though. But after I finished my treatment my eczema started coming back, just as angry as last time. SO I have been Under Dr. Aarons treat for a few months now and things are gonig great, as expected. I'm just worried what will happen when I stop using it all together. I've gone down from 5 applications to 2 applications per day.

Small issues: I will get random hives sometimes throughput the day, I only end up noticing them because they start itching like crazy. One morning I woke up with quite a large one on the back of my leg. As I lowered my doses I started losing my hair again. I told this to Dr. Aaron and he advised me it may be something with my thyroid..... Anyway, here's a few updates!

Friday, December 4, 2015

Weaning of Lotion-Flares
I found Dr. Aaron to be rather flaky. He stopped emailing me after I "seemed" clear, instead of sticking with me and monitoring my progress. Part of his program has you fill out a progress report after a certain amount of time in order to show your progress. He was rather pushy in reminding me to fill those out, but I had to ask him 3 times in one conversation on what my new dosing would be before I got an answer along the lines as "what ever feels best for your skin." He never emailed back. Now, this could be my # of consults were up? Or maybe because he had a HUGE wait list and had a lot of people he was trying to help. Either way, I left Dr. Aarons care with the same faith that I have in all dermatologists.

While his regimen works, it's steroids. Of course it's going to work, but unlike other dermatologists he had a very low dosing, with an antibiotic and a lotion vs. the ointment smear that we are all regularly used to. I don't regret getting his magic formula, that didn't cure me but is a better option in the long run. I wouldn't, however, recommend him to others... per se...

But as for an update on my flares. I'm trying to wean myself off the lotion and add an extra day in between every application but since I've lowered my dose there's been some changes.

I've started getting ingrown nails again. Like four nails, all at the same time and couple of toes as well.

I've notices my hair falling out more then normal. I think this is because I've been lowering my lotion/steroid doses.

I ran out of zyrtec (20mg a day,) so my eyes have been giving me some trouble.

Tuesday, June 14, 2016

Still getting small flares....
I still continue to use the steroid lotion perscribed by Dr. Aron because I still get small flares, I still get huge hives randomly but I'm trying to use the medication less and less. I have my good days and bad days.


After realizing that Dr. Aron failed her, she went onto a trial drug called Dupilumab. After that, her blog ends.
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fmt4




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 12:10 pm
zgp wrote:
I am a bit confused. If it is steroid damage, what do you do about it?


You do nothing. You wait in incredible pain and discomfort until it “heals itself” which for some people take years and for some never.

It’s extremely controversial and when you’re dealing with a child, downright cruel.
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Zeleze




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 12:16 pm
For many it passes when they get older, but very difficult till then, hold on tight

Use special washing powder and shampoo, very fattey creams when able
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amother
Azure


 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 1:02 pm
fmt4 wrote:
You do nothing. You wait in incredible pain and discomfort until it “heals itself” which for some people take years and for some never.

It’s extremely controversial and when you’re dealing with a child, downright cruel.


ftm4, It is absolutely not true what you are saying. And judging by the other posts you have written in the past, I don't think that your words carry much weight. You are very strongly opinionated, according to what I have seen you write, and none of it is based upon fact, only opinion. Doing a search under your profile name brings up all of your previous posts.

What I am writing, however, is medically proven, with multiple studies on thousands of people proving that A) steroids, if used incorrectly -- which the majority of people do, causes addiction and damage and the B) people with steroid addiction and damage heal 100% across the board.

And no, it's not "doing nothing." There are multiple tips and techniques that relieve the pain, as well as 17 different medications Dr. Rapaport uses based upon how badly the person is suffering.

I, myself, was suffering for about 18 months when I decided to try one of the meds he recommended and WOW! I have my life back and my skin is almost completely clear. I feel fantastic and my rashes that covered my whole body for TEN YEARS every time I stopped the steroids are no longer.

Would you call it cruel to have an opiod addict go through the withdrawal process for a better life? No. It would call it hard, painful, sad. But worth it.

When the skin is addicted to steroids and must have them to stay clear, there is a damage happening without the user realizing. It feels good, just like opiods do. And it hurts when you stop them. But it is only way to heal.

The patient needs medical support while going through the withdrawal because it is hard. But 100% of patients heal, across the board when finished with the withdrawal as long as they stay off the steroids.
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amother
Azure


 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 1:06 pm
Zeleze wrote:
For many it passes when they get older, but very difficult till then, hold on tight

Use special washing powder and shampoo, very fattey creams when able


Zeleze, you are correct when the situation is regular childhood eczema; the majority of kids clear by age 3 or 4, though some it takes longer. If there is steroid damage/addiction, however, the child will NEVER heal if steroids are in the picture, even when used sparingly. Each use resets the healing process.

That is why the right diagnosis is so important.

For kids with real eczema, there is the possibility of using steroids in a very specific manner, but once it crosses over into Red Skin Syndrome, the steroids cannot be touched.

According to OP's explanation of her son's condition, it is consistent with the presentation of RSS, not eczema.

I don't diagnose but I've seen enough cases that I believe it is highly, highly likely that is what this child is going through.
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amother
Azure


 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 1:13 pm
OP: If you want more info, including medical studies, articles, before/after pics, let me know.
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ces




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 17 2018, 4:43 pm
How can I contact the skin healing gemach mentioned above?
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