How to handle situation with DD

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

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amother

Chocolate

Thu, May 24 2018, 4:21 am

My 21 yo daughter came to me yesterday, computer in hand, and said "Here's a link my friend sent me for my other friend's wedding present. You have to put your credit card in today." I told her she'd have to give me the cash first, then I'd put in the payment. She said, "Whatever, I'll just go to Abba then."
I found him before she did and explained the situation, and told him not to. She needs to pay for her own friend's gift!!! She tends to be extremely stingy with her money, expecting us to pick up the tab. She is in school part-time, but refuses to get a steady part-tine job, relying on us and her savings for everything. I feel she needs to learn that if she wants to do things that are fun, outside of the realm of her basic needs, then she needs to work!!!
Anyway, she gave me $10, looking very upset that that was the minimum while saying all her friends were giving more. I made the decision, while doing the payment, to put in $5 more. I thought I was being nice, and was happy she made the effort to give me the cash. (Maybe I shouldn't have though!) Anyway, I found dd, told her I did the payment and put in a little extra to be nice. And here's what is irking me: Her reaction!! Instead of a nice "Thank you", "That's Nice", or "Great, Do I need to give you the extra back?", she got angry and started crying. Then she stormed off in a huff. She was already in a huff because she expected me to put in large amount without her contributing. If she had actually been pleasant and grateful, I wouldn't have wanted the 5 dollars back, and had planned to tell her. (Which I think my contribution was a mistake in hindsight!)

What should I do? I told her without an ounce of gratitude I wouldn't be helping her with these types of things again, and it was time to get a job so she can put in her own payments and take care of this stuff herself!!

amother

Slategray

Thu, May 24 2018, 4:46 am

21 is a bit late to be trying to install middos in your child. She sounds quite spoiled and entitled.

Instead of getting mad at her, try looking at where she got that attitude in the first place. A mirror would be helpful for this.

Aylat

Thu, May 24 2018, 4:51 am

amother wrote:

Snarky, much! It's against the rules of this site to insult a poster while amother.

amother

Fuchsia

Thu, May 24 2018, 4:52 am

You handled it fine.
Sit down with her. Get down to her level and try to feel compassion for where she's at and what she's feeling. Follow her lead and reflect back. It's hard to be responsible for your own expenses now? It's overwhelming? Or whatever else she expresses. Give her full compassion. Touch her hand, hug her, whatever works well to connect to her.
And then stay firm in what the rules and boundaries are. Keep giving empathy as you're repeating that wedding gifts to her friends are from her only.
It's not easy for you. It's going to take a lot of repeat conversations. Hopefully she will get to a place where she can problem solve or at some point you both can try to problem solve together, once she's accepted the situation as it is (may take a long while).
Just keep working on your connection and your relationship. Keep showing compassion in all she shares with you in all areas of life. It's ok if you guys disagree but try to understand her point of view fully always and empathize because feelings are always valid.

salt

Thu, May 24 2018, 4:54 am

amother wrote:

How nasty.

amother

Pearl

Thu, May 24 2018, 4:54 am

She sounds like a very immature childish 21 year old. 21 is an adult, yet you described a young teen. Don't bend yourself, keep strong with the rules & don't pay for her stuff. Why shouldn't she have a job?? And the crying & angry reaction from her is very childish as well.

grace413

Thu, May 24 2018, 4:55 am

amother wrote:

Do you have post-teenage children?

In addition to what Aylat said, children do not always have the middot their parents worked to instill in them.

OP, sorry your DD is being obnoxious. Don't offer her any more gifts.

momnaturally

Thu, May 24 2018, 4:59 am

Sorry to sound harsh but she sounds like she is a spoiled brat. It is very easy to get sucked in to giving too much to our kids and really it's not in their own benefit. She did not become like this overnight.
The problem is that to suddenly spring on her expectations of a 21 year old when she is a decade younger than that in this regard is overwhelming. However I don't see a gradual way at doing this at this point.
Monetary responsibilities should be given over to her in any capacity that is truly extras including a car or anything outside of basic food. Eventually she should start contributing to household expenses as well but that can wait until she comes to terms with your new relationship with her.
I would not lecture her. She is too old to for child raising/chinuch. Instead I would focus and giving the respect she deserves as a mature 21 year old (whether she deserves it or not she is 21 so treat her like that).
All these new realities are coming to her not from a place of trying to control her or teach her rather that you recognize and respect her as a 21 year old and not a kid and that comes with expectations just like you would relate to a responsible 21 year old daughter that was married and did not live with you.
I can't state this strongly enough
You need to totally change the whole way you think about her as an adult and not as a kid or else doing all this will just build more resentment.
Yes you will have expectations but it will come with a new respect for her as her own person. She will be subconsciously thrilled to be treated as such although it can be very subtle and she may not even realize it or express it.
But she will become it.
Ideally she should probably move to a different city and get her own place and job. So if you live in Brooklyn maybe she can find a job in Monsey and live there and come home for shabbos. It sounds like her living at home is toxic for her growth.
You can't kick her out but just trying to convey what is ideal for her right now.
I may be sounding extreme but I have seen too much.

Aylat

Thu, May 24 2018, 5:04 am

OP, have you had a conversation with her in the past laying out your expectations regarding money? Be very explicit about what your ground rules are and so you don't have to deal with situations on a case by case basis, but can give a 'broken record' type statement, "as we have discussed...".

amother

cornflower

Thu, May 24 2018, 5:06 am

amother wrote:

Wow, harsh. And unhelpful.

I think if your daughter is a little immature, train her according to her emotional age. Approach her at a calm time, sit down and lay
out your expectations: "At 21 you are legally an adult, and so you are financially responsible for yourself. We are going to be treating you according to your age, not as a punishment, but because we love you and want you to have proper sense of responsibility that will empower you for adult life/marriage. Here are the things we will pay for (your home, electricity, car, whatever) because you are still in school part time. Here are the things you must pay for, because you are old enough to work at least part time (clothing, gifts for your friends, recreation activities like going out with friends). It would be easier for us to just take care of our beloved little girl, but it wouldn't be what's really good for you, because truthfully you are a woman now."

Then you have to expect a storm of emotion, because she will be afraid and insecure. But you must compassionately stick to your guns. No more adding $5 to her group gifts. Show her you mean it, but with kindness and empathy for her transition to adulthood ("it's so hard to grow up and take responsibility for money, but you're doing a great job, you are going to be such a responsible wife and mother.")

Also, now would be the time to empower her by teaching her about budgeting her money, the importance of maaser, and how to balance a checkbook, etc. If you need to, find a course or another adult who you can hire to teach her these things, it's really important for her emotional development and her future. She should have her own bank account and her own credit card, not rely on yours, so she sees exactly where her money is going, gets a monthly statement, etc.

Hatzlacha!

amother

Wine

Thu, May 24 2018, 5:08 am

Hi OP,
I have a daughter the same age who has similar expectations and reactions. Most of my DD’s friends are in graduate programs, doing internships and working very hard. Their parents are paying for their cars, clothes, wedding gifts... My DD is slowly working her way through an online certificate program. She has lots of spare time and also refuses to look for a decent paying job. My husband and I reached out to a therapist who has a lot of experience working with teenagers and young adults. We are (trying) to follow his directives which often go against our nature. We are slowly, slowly (very slowly) seeing a shift in her attitude.
She still comes to us for money for things that any responsible 21 year old would know to take care of herself. Thank goodness for the therapist we are working with. He guides us which is super helpful. If not for him we would be guided by our emotions which would not be in DD’s best interest.

naomi2

Thu, May 24 2018, 5:16 am

Maybe her strong reaction was due to PMS?
Either way you need to have a clear conversation about how you will or won't be helping her financially from now on so there are no surprises. Aslo, you may want to consider that all her friends' parents pay for everything under they get married.that would explain why she expects you to pay and is upset when you don't.

Rachel Shira

Thu, May 24 2018, 5:26 am

I apologize if this is a huge assumption, but are you the amother who has posted about her post-sem daughter a few times before (ride to a wedding, etc)?

Chayalle

Thu, May 24 2018, 6:01 am

I agree with alot of what momnaturally said.

ETA: and I totally agree with cornflower amother.

I'm the mother of a 19 1/2 year old adult. She pays her own way for extra stuff (like gifts for classmates weddings) and wouldn't dream of asking me to pay for that. But her transition to adulthood started quite a few years ago, in her earlier teens.

I'm with you, OP, that that transition does not come easy, and there's give and take in the relationship on both sides. I remember my own reaction when DD told me she is studying for her driver's permit (NO WAY is my baby getting a license and hitting the road! - but I realized that if I expect her to grow up, I have to let her! And so I found myself allowing that and praying hard!....) and then we had a frank discussion of the extra expense her driving was going to cost, and we worked out how her driving lessons were going to get paid for (we went 50/50) as well as the car insurance premiums, which doubled the minute she was on our plan....

My point with this is, here are some questions to ask yourself:

If you expect her to be an adult and responsible for herself, are you allowing her to be that adult that you expect? Do you allow her to make choices for herself? Do you show her that you have confidence in her ability to make responsible choices? You need to treat her as an adult if she is to act like one....

Have you discussed clear boundaries with her about what you will pay for, and what types of expenses you expect her to pay herself? We've discussed these things very clearly with our DD. For example, if she wants a pair of shoes vs. she needs a pair of shoes, who pays? If she wants some cool cosmetic item, who pays? What about when she socializes with friends for an evening out? Who pays her travel expenses, etc...(our DD recently bought her own car out of her own savings, as I need mine back. But we pay for gas, and she contributes to insurance 50/50.)

If you find these things too difficult to work out with your DD on your own, you/she may benefit from some professional counseling and advice as you go through these transitions.

Last edited by Chayalle on Thu, May 24 2018, 6:47 am; edited 1 time in total

thunderstorm

Thu, May 24 2018, 6:14 am

OP, at age 21 your daughter is an adult. She should be responsible for her own friends gifts. When I was her age I was married with a child and fully responsible to pay every bill without parental support.
I have a 17 yr old now and I have been trying to instill that responsibility into him since his early teenagehood. He works hard on Fridays and Sundays after school to clean a shul (toilets and all) so that he can earn money to buy himself his extras and treat and gift his friends. I pay for things he needs such as food , clothes, school, shelter, school trips etc.
But if he decides he wants to get himself a guitar, he will purchase it himself. Sometimes if he doesn't have the cash on hand he will give us a cheshbon of how he plans to pay it back and he always keeps his word.
My mother never paid for my friends gifts. When I was a teen I was always buying my friends cute stuff with my own money. The same is when it came to wedding gifts.
My DS age 12 started having boys becoming Bar Mitzvahed in class and each person chips in for the class gift at every Bar Mitzvah. I don't expect my 12 yr old to pay for that. But at the age of 21 your daughter is capable of even doing something simple as babysitting. I think you are right for not giving in.

naturalmom5

Thu, May 24 2018, 6:19 am

Does she send you pictures of 300$ sneakers that she wants, and ask when to expect them.
Maybe she is a shidduch for my 22 year old son, if you pay for the Chasana Surprised

amother

Chocolate

Thu, May 24 2018, 6:53 am

Op here: I'm really appreciative of all your replies, comments, suggestions!! Thank you! Please keep them coming!!

A few responses:
1. I am not the poster with the post-sem daughter (although I do read those posts with great interest!)

2. We've been trying hard to strike a balance with the way dh grew up and the way I grew up. Dh was given everything until marriage. I paid for everything other than basic needs from right after Bas Mitzvah. DH was definitely spoiled, and I had to work since I was 12. (To the poster who told me to look in the mirror: be careful with your thoughts! I didn't grow up entitled and spoiled) Dh grew up in an environment where if a kid is in school he/she doesn't have to pay for what he/she wants. HOWEVER, he knows financially we can't do that. Sometimes it's hard for him to accept that we can function the same way he did growing up. For myself, it was hard to work from so young, and I want to make sure I'm not being too harsh.

3. Dd often complains why younger siblings have things paid for them when she doesn't. (Like, why does 17 yo sibling get shabbos shoes to replace worn out ones, but she can't get the fancy Shabbos shoes she wants.) With this gift situation, she'll probably complain that a much younger sibling gets party gifts for friends paid for them, but why can't we do this for her.

4. I agree. She needs a job, a checking account. I've been saying this for a while. Again read #2 above...I'm balancing dh's upbringing with my own.

5. Bh...her siblings are not like this! They all understand they should earn money to pay for things they want. ( My dd currently in seminary got a part time job all on her own.
She was home recently and produced 2 100 dollar bills for us to break up into smaller bills so she could handle paying for things easier.

6. To the poster suggesting a shidduch: OK!! Smile

amother

Firebrick

Thu, May 24 2018, 6:56 am

amother wrote:

HOWEVER, he knows financially we can do that. Sometimes it's hard for him to accept that we can function the same way he did growing up.

Do you mean can't?

(I'm not trying to nitpick, just you might wan't to change it so that everyone understands your post.)

amother

Chocolate

Thu, May 24 2018, 7:00 am

amother wrote:

Do you mean can't?

(I'm not trying to nitpick, just you might wan't to change it so that everyone understands your post.)

Op her: thanks! I edited!! Smile

amother

Periwinkle

Thu, May 24 2018, 7:40 am

amother wrote:

Maybe you can lend it to OP after you're through using it. Nah, seems to me that you're going to need it for a good, long time.

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