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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children
Anger and Hatred



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amother
Papaya


 

Post Sun, May 27 2018, 2:24 pm
I have a child who since birth has been very needy. No amount of personal attention was ever enough for her since she was a baby. I could spend a whole day only with her and she would claim I never spend time with her.

As a teen this has morphed into extreme anger. She is convinced that no one understands her, certainly not her parents. It is impossible to discuss anything with her, if I don't agree with what she says her only response is "you don't understand". Even if I repeat back to her what she says I get the same response. She has tantrums like a 2 year old kicking, screaming, pulling at her hair, throwing things. Nothing is ever her fault, always because of someone else.

Now she has focused on her younger sister who she hates. I really mean hates. She blames anything in her life that does not go her way on her sister. She will even verbally or physically attack her when things don't go her way.

She is seeing a psychiatrist who thinks it is all ADHD and is calmer on her meds but the underlying hatred and anger are still there, as well as the neediness. She is also working with a therapist (her 4th) but I am not seeing great results from that.

Outside the house she is very popular, has a bunch of friends and to everyone else seems to be an amazing girl.

Has anyone dealt with a child like this? I'm really concerned not only for the wellbeing of my other kids due to the havoc she wreaks in the house but for her future. How will she be as a wife and mother? How will she hold down a job?

Most of all--will she ever be happy?
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 27 2018, 2:37 pm
I cannot diagnose, but consider getting her screened for Borderline Personality Disorder. Recent research has shown that there is a 60% genetic factor. DBT therapy is the best way to go about treating meltdowns and refusing to take responsiblity for things.

I wish you all the best.
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Sun, May 27 2018, 2:40 pm
I have a daughter who is like this. But it isn’t ADHD and it isn’t a personality disorder. We spend a lot of time with her therapist though. Editing because my daughter isn’t popular at all.
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 27 2018, 2:56 pm
Where are you located? I took an amazing short parenting course on fostering connection.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Sun, May 27 2018, 3:41 pm
I would also look into getting her evaluated for borderline personality disorder, though it may not be that at all. Even if it isn't, DBT (the therapy done for borderline personality disorder) could still be helpful.
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amother
White


 

Post Sun, May 27 2018, 3:43 pm
How old is she?
I tthink you would benefit from therapy to learn how to deal with her. Take heart, a relative of mine had a very similar story and her daughter is doing well. b"h.
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amother
Slategray


 

Post Sun, May 27 2018, 3:59 pm
I was/am like this.
She may be holding traumas from the past...
You can have trauma without PTSD, I have it.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 27 2018, 4:30 pm
Parts of your story definitely resonate hereabouts, OP!

One of my DDs came into the world furious. I remember looking over immediately after delivery to see that three nurses were needed to subdue 9 pounds of mad-as-!#@% baby girl in an attempt to clean her up. I gave birth at 11 a.m. and we were dismissed by 6 p.m. My OB said it was so I could spend Shabbos at home, but I have a feeling they just wanted some peace and quiet.

Like your DD, the sibling dynamics were hard for her, and she regularly antagonized and fought with her sisters, occasionally going well beyond normal bounds. She now refers to it as her "sociopathic stage."

She also suffered from a pretty severe spatial disorder, which added to her frustrations. I wouldn't have characterized her as popular by a long shot, but she certainly had friends and was able to interact normally with them.

Here's some of what we did:

* Kept looking for a good therapist with whom she could develop a kesher and finally found one. The first two were disasters. She saw the therapist for about two years, and they focused on learning how to re-frame problems and learning to identify options in any situation.

* Involved a rav who, TBH, wasn't very helpful, but who was there for her to talk to if she wanted, and more importantly, served as a sounding board for DH, who was frustrated by the whole thing.

* Allowed her to withdraw from family interactions that were too difficult for her. For example, for a while we had a rule that we wouldn't force her to come to the Shabbos seudas or remain for the whole meal, but that if she came, she couldn't start up with siblings.

* Helped her find an outlet for her energy -- in her case, a child care business that became very profitable for her.

* Allowed her room to differentiate herself spiritually. She found a Chabad rebbetzin whom she developed a close relationship to, and although DD doesn't consider herself Chabad, she adopted a few small practices and finds many of the Rebbe's writings to really speak to her.

* Davened to Hashem every morning to not kill her during the coming day and thanked Hashem every night for not having killed her.

Well, not only did we manage to avoid killing her, but I am going to have to work really, really hard not to be one of those obnoxious bragging mothers when it comes to this DD.

She is 23 and is currently working part-time on her master's degree. She has an amazing job, making more money than I've ever made in my life. She's not married, but she's had a number of opportunities. She was recently contacted by the FBI and invited to apply -- apparently they need people with her speciality. I was kind of surprised, given that she works with autism spectrum and behavior-disordered kids, but I'll refrain from any of the politically-related jokes that come to mind. She no longer lives at home -- she shares an apartment with 2 other girls -- but she makes Shabbos each week (including homemade challah, chicken soup, and whatnot) and invites other young women.

I failed at not being one of those bragging moms, didn't I? Sorry.

My point: don't lose hope, OP! Difficult kids very, very frequently turn into talented, interesting, resourceful, and deeply spiritual adults. Childhood and adolescence are just too confining for them, and the onslaught of hormone-fueled emotions ramps up their unhappiness even higher.

I like to imagine Hashem distributing neshamas for us to nurture like a boss giving out projects to members of the team. Some projects, while important, are pretty easy and straightforward. Others may have a difficult wrinkle or two, but you solve those specific problems and you're good to go. But some projects are just nightmares. They are so large, so complex, or so resistant to solutions that only the most accomplished team members are able to see them through to completion.

A difficult child means that Hashem regards you as one of His top team members. So batten down the hatches and plow ahead. Do what works and stop doing anything that doesn't work. You can do this job!

Hatzlacha!
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Aylat




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 27 2018, 4:39 pm
Fox, thank you! I need to hear that.
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amother
Maroon


 

Post Sun, May 27 2018, 8:30 pm
Fox
Thank you it gives hope to others. As for me my difficult one is older than yours and while he is happy in his job - most friends all have married and moved on causing him to be alone. Playing video games. Thank goodness he is a boy ( man) because he goes to shul so he has minor social outlets, but not really any friends.
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amother
Papaya


 

Post Sun, May 27 2018, 10:05 pm
Fox wrote:
Parts of your story definitely resonate hereabouts, OP!

One of my DDs came into the world furious. I remember looking over immediately after delivery to see that three nurses were needed to subdue 9 pounds of mad-as-!#@% baby girl in an attempt to clean her up. I gave birth at 11 a.m. and we were dismissed by 6 p.m. My OB said it was so I could spend Shabbos at home, but I have a feeling they just wanted some peace and quiet.

Like your DD, the sibling dynamics were hard for her, and she regularly antagonized and fought with her sisters, occasionally going well beyond normal bounds. She now refers to it as her "sociopathic stage."

She also suffered from a pretty severe spatial disorder, which added to her frustrations. I wouldn't have characterized her as popular by a long shot, but she certainly had friends and was able to interact normally with them.

Here's some of what we did:

* Kept looking for a good therapist with whom she could develop a kesher and finally found one. The first two were disasters. She saw the therapist for about two years, and they focused on learning how to re-frame problems and learning to identify options in any situation.

* Involved a rav who, TBH, wasn't very helpful, but who was there for her to talk to if she wanted, and more importantly, served as a sounding board for DH, who was frustrated by the whole thing.

* Allowed her to withdraw from family interactions that were too difficult for her. For example, for a while we had a rule that we wouldn't force her to come to the Shabbos seudas or remain for the whole meal, but that if she came, she couldn't start up with siblings.

* Helped her find an outlet for her energy -- in her case, a child care business that became very profitable for her.

* Allowed her room to differentiate herself spiritually. She found a Chabad rebbetzin whom she developed a close relationship to, and although DD doesn't consider herself Chabad, she adopted a few small practices and finds many of the Rebbe's writings to really speak to her.

* Davened to Hashem every morning to not kill her during the coming day and thanked Hashem every night for not having killed her.

Well, not only did we manage to avoid killing her, but I am going to have to work really, really hard not to be one of those obnoxious bragging mothers when it comes to this DD.

She is 23 and is currently working part-time on her master's degree. She has an amazing job, making more money than I've ever made in my life. She's not married, but she's had a number of opportunities. She was recently contacted by the FBI and invited to apply -- apparently they need people with her speciality. I was kind of surprised, given that she works with autism spectrum and behavior-disordered kids, but I'll refrain from any of the politically-related jokes that come to mind. She no longer lives at home -- she shares an apartment with 2 other girls -- but she makes Shabbos each week (including homemade challah, chicken soup, and whatnot) and invites other young women.

I failed at not being one of those bragging moms, didn't I? Sorry.

My point: don't lose hope, OP! Difficult kids very, very frequently turn into talented, interesting, resourceful, and deeply spiritual adults. Childhood and adolescence are just too confining for them, and the onslaught of hormone-fueled emotions ramps up their unhappiness even higher.

I like to imagine Hashem distributing neshamas for us to nurture like a boss giving out projects to members of the team. Some projects, while important, are pretty easy and straightforward. Others may have a difficult wrinkle or two, but you solve those specific problems and you're good to go. But some projects are just nightmares. They are so large, so complex, or so resistant to solutions that only the most accomplished team members are able to see them through to completion.

A difficult child means that Hashem regards you as one of His top team members. So batten down the hatches and plow ahead. Do what works and stop doing anything that doesn't work. You can do this job!

Hatzlacha!


Thank you for writing this, it gives me a lot of chizuk. Although I make her sound like a monster, under it all she really is a great girl. When she wants to she can be amazing, like making a whole Shabbos for me when I wasn't feeling well or making an erev yomtov fun school for her siblings and the neighbors kids. She is very creative when she wants to be and has tons of potential.

The only trauma I can think of for her was that I was hospitalized for a week when she was a year old. However, she was like this from birth, always needing to be held and constant attention so I don't think that was a trigger for her.

I daven and hope for her all the time that she should just learn how to control herself and her anger and hatred and, like I said, be happy!
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Thu, May 31 2018, 10:33 am
ra_mom wrote:
Where are you located? I took an amazing short parenting course on fostering connection.


Not op but I'm in NY and would love info on the course.
TIA
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