What a mess Roseanne

southernbubby

Thu, May 31 2018, 12:46 pm

http://www.aish.com/ci/s/3-Les.....?s=mm

I see the RW media really angry about her show being cancelled and all the people who lose due to that cancellation and the RW media trying to put racism into a different perspective and not considering racist jokes to be racism itself. Even though Roseanne is Jewish, her dark Holocaust humor was not appreciated by Jews in the slightest.

Personally, I think that we all have to have a greater sensitivity toward treating everyone with respect and being careful not to treat someone of a different race or cultural group differently.

SixOfWands

Thu, May 31 2018, 1:50 pm

Squishy wrote:

There is definitely a double standard. Why shouldn't Bill Maher to be fired after he joked Trump is part orangutan?

There's a difference between a bad -- possibly offensive -- joke, and a racist one. (Although Maher was fired for offensive comments after 9/11.)

Her comments were not merely offensive, they were blatantly racist. Her tweet that followed about George Soros was equally repugnant. (Hate the guy if you want, but to accuse him of colluding with the Nazis is way over the top.)

I'd give her a pass on the horrific Heeb photos except for the fact that Heeb claims that the whole thing was her idea. Dressing up as Hitler and cooking burnt Jew cookies. Not someone I'm about to defend. (And FTR, Heeb was equally repugnant for agreeing to do the photo shoot, and for publishing it.)

I feel bad for the others involved in the show who are negatively impacted by her actions. But they'll survive. Give it 6 months. The original show will be back in re-runs.

And as to Maher -- if you're offended, don't watch him. If enough people do that, then his show won't be renewed.

33055

Thu, May 31 2018, 2:10 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

It is either ok to call people simian creatures or it is not. Why is it ok to mock Trumps looks and not black women?

Also, shouldn't the same standard be applied to Roseanne? If enough people are offended, then they won't watch the show, and it won't be renewed. Why the different standard?

southernbubby

Thu, May 31 2018, 2:20 pm

We have the same question about kneeling during the national anthem. It isn't a law that the national anthem be played at football games but it is a tradition and if enough people are offended by players who kneel, then they will stop watching games and buying tickets to them.

There is no law that anyone watch entertainment that they find offensive but networks and sports associations are in the business of selling entertainment and therefore must be concerned about stepping on toes.

It becomes a political debate about whether or not networks can air anything offensive when they have the right within reason to free speech but the real debate is whether or not the public will exercise their right to choose based on their ideology and those whose profits come from people's choices have to pick their bets on what the public wants. It would be nice to think that they actually cared about society but somehow I not convinced that this is their main concern.

Amarante

Thu, May 31 2018, 2:20 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

I've heard its a long shot.

I can't imagine it would work. The show was called Roseanne for a reason.

Well they did kill off Valerie Harper from her show :-)

There is not any way calling a black woman a descendent of apes is not going to get you into big trouble because the ape analogy has a LONG history in terms of racist writings and behavior.

It's entirely different than calling Trump an orangutan because it has not underlying connotations. I'm not defending calling Trump an orangutan because I can eviscerate him with words that actually describe why I think he is awful Very Happy

You have to understand things within their context which is why ape references for black people are beyond the pale.

simcha2

Thu, May 31 2018, 2:22 pm

Squishy wrote:

Do you really not understand the difference?

It's the same as the difference between calling Trump (or any not Jewish male) tight fisted member of the world order and calling a prominent Jew the same thing. There is a whole history of anti semitism predicated on the notion that Jews see money grabbing evil people who secretly rule the world. So calling a Jew tight fisted halls back to that canard. It is inherently offensive as it besmirches an individual by referencing a racist theme.

The same for a black person and a monkey. It references a whole history of racism and saying that black people are closer to animals than humans.

Calling trump an otangutan doesn't do that.

Conflating the two denies a whole history of racism.

SixOfWands

Thu, May 31 2018, 2:25 pm

Squishy wrote:

There is no generally known racist trope of calling white folks monkeys, apes, etc.

There is as to people of color.

Its fine to joke about Obama's ears, but not fine to refer to his wife as an "ape in heels." (FTR,the public employee who said that was suspended for 6 weeks, but did not lose her job.)

And just like its fine to joke about Obama's ears, its fine to joke about Trump's unusual skin hue. And just like its fine to joke about Obama's dad jeans, its fine to joke about Trump's ties. I don't like any of those types of jokes -- they don't advance political debate -- but they're still not racist.

Do you think that anyone making an offensive comment or joke that is not racist should be fired? What about Fox news anchors?

SixOfWands

Thu, May 31 2018, 2:36 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Interestingly enough, the government PAID the NFL to play the anthem. From 2011-2014, the Department of Defense spent $5.4 million in contracts with 14 NFL teams for flag ceremonies. The National Guard got in on the action too, and gave $6.7 million to the NFL for the same kind of thing from 2013 to 2015. Which IMNSHO puts a whole different spin on it.

The NFL has now taken the position that any player who kneels will be fined, but players may choose not to come out for the anthem. I don't find kneeling to be disrespectful -- and certainly less disrespectful than staying in the locker room. Its a protest of racism in the US, not of the flag or the anthem, and done in a respectful manner. I understand that others will disagree. (Note what Tim Tebow -- considered the pinnacle of respectful conduct -- did. He kneeled -- they called it "Tebowing" -- after touchdowns. Because taking a knee is respectful.)

I'll also say that there are plenty of teams that should have taken Colin Kaepernick. They didn't, and no one can force them to.

33055

Thu, May 31 2018, 2:36 pm

simcha2 wrote:

I understand the history of racism.

Calling Trump an oregatan is offensive because you can call a white person sub- human but not a black person.

It does not advance the cause of equality. Either something is wrong or it is not. Where is the line? Can you call a half black person a gorilla? How about a hexadecaroon? Can you call them a monkey?

And what if a Jew is really cheap? Are you unable to state this? What about the Japanese? They are notoriously tight fisted?

simcha2

Thu, May 31 2018, 2:42 pm

Squishy wrote:

I'm sorry, as my kids would say, I can't even.

I'll ignore your racist Japanese line. But really???

Calling trump an orangutan wasn't calling him sub human, it was calling him orange with distinctive hair. No,I don't think you should call anyone an animal. Pretending there is no history of racist images is fatuous at best and disingenuous at worst.