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-> In the News
33055
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 Thu, May 31 2018, 6:42 pm
| simcha2 wrote: | Yes, because the orangutan is orange! His hair color is similar. It wasn't a coincidence. I'm not saying it was right, or nice, but it wasn't the same.
I'm done with this. You can parrot Fox news all you like, but it doesn't make it true. There is both news and fake news on both sides of the political divide.
Despite all evidence you can't consider a different side. So there is no point trying to have a conversation.
And I have to make dinner.
Have a good evening. |
Jimmy Kimmel called Trump an orangutan. This had nothing to do with hair color. It is insulting pure and simple. But that is ok because he is white.
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southernbubby
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Thu, May 31 2018, 6:51 pm
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My sister in law just Whatsapped me that why does Roseanne's show get pulled while Bill Cosby is still on the air?
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33055
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Thu, May 31 2018, 6:58 pm
| southernbubby wrote: | | My sister in law just Whatsapped me that why does Roseanne's show get pulled while Bill Cosby is still on the air? |
The Double Standard
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SixOfWands
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Thu, May 31 2018, 7:04 pm
| Squishy wrote: | | Jimmy Kimmel called Trump an orangutan. This had nothing to do with hair color. It is insulting pure and simple. But that is ok because he is white. |
You're really reaching here. Kimmel was commenting on Trump's meeting with Macron. How they touched quite a bit, and then how Trump brushed dandruff off Macron's shoulder.
No matter. Even if it was a comparison, its not racist because Trump is WHITE.
There's a difference between offensive and racist. Barr is racist.
Shall I quote Shep Smith? "Racism is not funny and Roseanne Barr is a racist. Now her show is canceled."
But let me ask. When Obama first ran for president, Megyn Kelly and Michelle Malkin referred to Michelle as his "baby mama." Should they have been fired? Should NBC even now fire Kelly?
Did you campaign for Rush Limbaugh to be fired when he played "Barack the Magic [black person]"? Or claimed that Obama wanted whites to get ebola, as payback for slavery?
What about Glenn Beck, when he said Obama had “a deep-seated hatred for white people,”
Or any of the almost countless Republicans who made racist comments about Obama.
Do you honestly not find Roseanne's comments offensive?
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SixOfWands
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Thu, May 31 2018, 7:08 pm
| southernbubby wrote: | | My sister in law just Whatsapped me that why does Roseanne's show get pulled while Bill Cosby is still on the air? |
Pick me! Pick me!
Cosby is not currently in syndication in the US.
Most networks pulled it after the accusations surfaced. The only network still airing it was Bounce -- which I've never heard of -- which pulled it after the conviction.
The question is whether either should have been pulled, or should be recognize the difference between a character and the actor. Maybe. But I still won't watch Mel Gibson, and I used to love Mad Max.
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Fox
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Thu, May 31 2018, 7:28 pm
I don't think anyone, anywhere on the political spectrum, thought Roseanne's "joke" was defensible. John Nolte at Breitbart ran a column praising ABC for yanking her show.
That said, Roseanne apologized almost immediately. Virtually everyone who knows or has worked with her vouches for the fact that Roseanne is one of the least racist or otherwise prejudiced entertainers around.
The double-standard debate is focused less on Samantha Bee than on MSNBC's Joy Reid, who posted a series of offensive anti-gay remarks (including characterizing ideological opponents as effeminate gays as a way of discrediting them). When these posts came to light, she claimed her account had been hacked. When that was proven a lie, she apologized but said she had no memory of ever writing the posts. She kept her show and was praised for her "honesty."
So now the gay men are riled up, claiming that firing Roseanne while giving Joy Reid a pass shows that a single oblique racist reference is treated more seriously than years of in-your-face anti-gay rantings. Michael Lucas has joined the fray, along with all the usual media suspects, and even Clay Aiken has weighed in.
In another corner, we have Joy Behar of ABC's The View. Aside from calling for Trump's assassination or death, she has notably said that Christians are mentally ill. So now the devout Christians are riled up that she has never apologize nor been sanctioned by ABC in any way, thus proving that religious prejudice is apparently okay with ABC while racism is not.
Women and anyone concerned with s-xual abuse are rolling their eyes big time. ABC is owned by Disney, and Disney CEO Bob Iger, who made a public statement that Roseanne's tweet was incompatible with their values, was one of Harvey Weinstein's chief enablers over the years and has fought to keep contracts with Weinstein private. Apparently Weinstein's behavior was compatible with their values?
Did I leave out the growing conservative African-American contingent? They're huddled in their corner, pointing out all kinds of ongoing tone-deaf racial gaffes on the part of ABC. "Now you're worried about one comedian's single tweet?" A lot of the comments reference the fact that 32 people were shot and 7 killed in Chicago last weekend -- almost all black -- while nobody died because Roseanne said something racist to Valerie Jarrett. They would prefer energy be spent on the former rather than the latter.
So this is a controversy with something for everyone!
The idea that a network would be reluctant to kill off a profitable show is simply untrue. For better and worse, the entertainment industry segregates the creative people from "the numbers guys."
The creative people made this decision, and they are motivated by desire for status within the entertainment community and the good opinion of their peers. Michael Medved detailed this exhaustively in Hollywood Vs. America back in 1992. Firing Roseanne for a racist tweet was an irresistible opportunity to spank an entertainer for wandering too far from approved progressive ideas and people.
As the whole thing unfolds, it appears that ABC is going to lose no matter what. If you think that firing Roseanne was entirely appropriate -- as many conservatives do -- this only calls attention to various double-standards. If you think that firing Roseanne was an over-reaction -- and many do -- ABC looks hypocritical and craven. Ultimately, there will be a reason for everyone to be mad at ABC and Disney.
Last edited by Fox on Thu, May 31 2018, 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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33055
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Thu, May 31 2018, 7:28 pm
| SixOfWands wrote: | You're really reaching here. Kimmel was commenting on Trump's meeting with Macron. How they touched quite a bit, and then how Trump brushed dandruff off Macron's shoulder.
No matter. Even if it was a comparison, its not racist because Trump is WHITE.
There's a difference between offensive and racist. Barr is racist.
Shall I quote Shep Smith? "Racism is not funny and Roseanne Barr is a racist. Now her show is canceled."
But let me ask. When Obama first ran for president, Megyn Kelly and Michelle Malkin referred to Michelle as his "baby mama." Should they have been fired? Should NBC even now fire Kelly?
Did you campaign for Rush Limbaugh to be fired when he played "Barack the Magic [black person]"? Or claimed that Obama wanted whites to get ebola, as payback for slavery?
What about Glenn Beck, when he said Obama had “a deep-seated hatred for white people,”
Or any of the almost countless Republicans who made racist comments about Obama.
Do you honestly not find Roseanne's comments offensive? |
I find Roseanne's comments offensive. I find Jimmy Kimmel's just as offensive. It should be hands off for everyone. Or open season for everyone.
It should not be open season against white people.
The orangutan comment was a targeted zing. He specifically used the word orangutan because of the prior controversy.
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southernbubby
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Thu, May 31 2018, 7:31 pm
| shyshira wrote: | http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/the-cosby-show/tv-listings/100456/
where? |
I don't know, it was just one of those Whatsapp memes that she circulated. It could be that nobody can find his shows anymore. I would imagine that people who saved Cosby's shows or Roseannes shows will try to make money on the black market copying them and selling them.
It sounds to me like they are probably in an even bigger demand.
I think that a lot of people don't give a hoot about the level of morality of entertainers or sports heroes, they just want to be entertained and they can easily separate the person from the script that they act or the sport that they play.
It's basically just all a free market and producers are allowed to decide what to offer the public and the public has to decide whether to watch it.
There are lots of people blaming Trump's rhetoric for any and all racism that gets shared on social media.
Good things happen for those who delete Facebook.
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SixOfWands
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Thu, May 31 2018, 7:48 pm
| southernbubby wrote: | I don't know, it was just one of those Whatsapp memes that she circulated. It could be that nobody can find his shows anymore. I would imagine that people who saved Cosby's shows or Roseannes shows will try to make money on the black market copying them and selling them.
It sounds to me like they are probably in an even bigger demand.
I think that a lot of people don't give a hoot about the level of morality of entertainers or sports heroes, they just want to be entertained and they can easily separate the person from the script that they act or the sport that they play.
It's basically just all a free market and producers are allowed to decide what to offer the public and the public has to decide whether to watch it.
There are lots of people blaming Trump's rhetoric for any and all racism that gets shared on social media.
Good things happen for those who delete Facebook. |
Both shows are available online. Neither is on television.
But even when we disagree, you usually (always? -- you think I remember?) come off as someone who thinks and considers things. Don't trust memes. Especially not advocacy memes. They're more often wrong than right -- no matter what side they come from.
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shyshira
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Thu, May 31 2018, 7:50 pm
| southernbubby wrote: | I don't know, it was just one of those Whatsapp memes that she circulated. It could be that nobody can find his shows anymore. I would imagine that people who saved Cosby's shows or Roseannes shows will try to make money on the black market copying them and selling them.
It sounds to me like they are probably in an even bigger demand.
I think that a lot of people don't give a hoot about the level of morality of entertainers or sports heroes, they just want to be entertained and they can easily separate the person from the script that they act or the sport that they play.
It's basically just all a free market and producers are allowed to decide what to offer the public and the public has to decide whether to watch it.
There are lots of people blaming Trump's rhetoric for any and all racism that gets shared on social media.
Good things happen for those who delete Facebook. |
I hope everyone who found themselves out of a job as a result of ABC canceling the show are treated fairly, and find new work soon.
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southernbubby
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Thu, May 31 2018, 7:56 pm
| SixOfWands wrote: | Both shows are available online. Neither is on television.
But even when we disagree, you usually (always? -- you think I remember?) come off as someone who thinks and considers things. Don't trust memes. Especially not advocacy memes. They're more often wrong than right -- no matter what side they come from. |
You are so right!
https://www.youtube.com/result.....sodes
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southernbubby
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Thu, May 31 2018, 7:58 pm
| Fox wrote: | I don't think anyone, anywhere on the political spectrum, thought Roseanne's "joke" was defensible. John Nolte at Breitbart ran a column praising ABC for yanking her show.
That said, Roseanne apologized almost immediately. Virtually everyone who knows or has worked with her vouches for the fact that Roseanne is one of the least racist or otherwise prejudiced entertainers around.
The double-standard debate is focused less on Samantha Bee than on MSNBC's Joy Reid, who posted a series of offensive anti-gay remarks (including characterizing ideological opponents as effeminate gays as a way of discrediting them). When these posts came to light, she claimed her account had been hacked. When that was proven a lie, she apologized but said she had no memory of ever writing the posts. She kept her show and was praised for her "honesty."
So now the gay men are riled up, claiming that firing Roseanne while giving Joy Reid a pass shows that a single oblique racist reference is treated more seriously than years of in-your-face anti-gay rantings. Michael Lucas has joined the fray, along with all the usual media suspects, and even Clay Aiken has weighed in.
In another corner, we have Joy Behar of ABC's The View. Aside from calling for Trump's assassination or death, she has notably said that Christians are mentally ill. So now the devout Christians are riled up that she has never apologize nor been sanctioned by ABC in any way, thus proving that religious prejudice is apparently okay with ABC while racism is not.
Women and anyone concerned with s-xual abuse are rolling their eyes big time. ABC is owned by Disney, and Disney CEO Bob Iger, who made a public statement that Roseanne's tweet was incompatible with their values, was one of Harvey Weinstein's chief enablers over the years and has fought to keep contracts with Weinstein private. Apparently Weinstein's behavior was compatible with their values?
Did I leave out the growing conservative African-American contingent? They're huddled in their corner, pointing out all kinds of ongoing tone-deaf racial gaffes on the part of ABC. "Now you're worried about one comedian's single tweet?" A lot of the comments reference the fact that 32 people were shot and 7 killed in Chicago last weekend -- almost all black -- while nobody died because Roseanne said something racist to Valerie Jarrett. They would prefer energy be spent on the former rather than the latter.
So this is a controversy with something for everyone!
The idea that a network would be reluctant to kill off a profitable show is simply untrue. For better and worse, the entertainment industry segregates the creative people from "the numbers guys."
The creative people made this decision, and they are motivated by desire for status within the entertainment community and the good opinion of their peers. Michael Medved detailed this exhaustively in Hollywood Vs. America back in 1992. Firing Roseanne for a racist tweet was an irresistible opportunity to spank an entertainer for wandering too far from approved progressive ideas and people.
As the whole thing unfolds, it appears that ABC is going to lose no matter what. If you think that firing Roseanne was entirely appropriate -- as many conservatives do -- this only calls attention to various double-standards. If you think that firing Roseanne was an over-reaction -- and many do -- ABC looks hypocritical and craven. Ultimately, there will be a reason for everyone to be mad at ABC and Disney. |
Really good points. I need to copy paste this to an email because I am going to visit my siblings soon and one is a liberal and one is a conservative and both of them are dogmatic about it.
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PinkFridge
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Thu, May 31 2018, 8:44 pm
| Fox wrote: |
The creative people made this decision, and they are motivated by desire for status within the entertainment community and the good opinion of their peers. Michael Medved detailed this exhaustively in Hollywood Vs. America back in 1992. Firing Roseanne for a racist tweet was an irresistible opportunity to spank an entertainer for wandering too far from approved progressive ideas and people.
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I haven't seen the show, I've just heard the buzz.
I thought it was supposed to appeal to the Trump voters*. Aren't they by definition way far from approved progressive ideas and people?
*The gung ho voters, not the reluctant voters.
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dancingqueen
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Thu, May 31 2018, 8:58 pm
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Kind of crazy that she would self sabotage like that, so soon into her comeback.
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southernbubby
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Thu, May 31 2018, 8:58 pm
| PinkFridge wrote: | I haven't seen the show, I've just heard the buzz.
I thought it was supposed to appeal to the Trump voters*. Aren't they by definition way far from approved progressive ideas and people?
*The gung ho voters, not the reluctant voters. |
Apparently her "joke" is seen as a symptom of the type of racism that Trump awakened in his voters by engaging in populism.
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Fox
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Thu, May 31 2018, 9:34 pm
| PinkFridge wrote: | I haven't seen the show, I've just heard the buzz.
I thought it was supposed to appeal to the Trump voters*. Aren't they by definition way far from approved progressive ideas and people? |
I think the reboot was greenlighted based on the availability of the original cast and the fact that similar reboots have been successful.
Roseanne has always been a bit of an unpredictable iconoclast, and I suspect the creative people at ABC aren't familiar enough with the mindset of Trump supporters, both enthusiastic and reluctant, to have predicted her appeal.
In fact, I think entertainment industry creative honchos were actually a little frightened by Roseanne's popularity because the content of the episodes and reactions to them demonstrated that the mid-Americans who elected Trump are, in fact, not the racist, Islamophobic, anti-LGBT, misogynistic monsters that left-leaning entertainers make them out to be. Remember, Hollywood doesn't do nuance and subtlety very well. They like their villains and heroes to be clear-cut and obvious.
Roseanne is a loose cannon, and her tweet was completely indefensible. Despite that, I think she'll emerge from this looking better than many of the professional pearl-clutchers who rushed to condemn her. But don't fear! She'll re-emerge to tweet something else beyond the pale in the future!
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southernbubby
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Thu, May 31 2018, 9:55 pm
She is now trying to dig herself out of the hole and she has totally apologized and is no longer blaming Ambien. It is very sad for her and the people who are losing jobs.
Why does Samantha Bee get to use such vile language and an apologetic tweet wipes the whole slate clean and she is back in business the next day? Is everyone trying to sweep it under the rug?
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shyshira
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Thu, May 31 2018, 10:02 pm
| southernbubby wrote: | She is now trying to dig herself out of the hole and she has totally apologized and is no longer blaming Ambien. It is very sad for her and the people who are losing jobs.
Why does Samantha Bee get to use such vile language and an apologetic tweet wipes the whole slate clean and she is back in business the next day? Is everyone trying to sweep it under the rug? |
They aren't on the same station.. Cross company networks execs don't have conference calls to agree to a "when to fire" protocol.
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Rubber Ducky
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Thu, May 31 2018, 10:33 pm
| southernbubby wrote: | | ...Why does Samantha Bee get to use such vile language and an apologetic tweet wipes the whole slate clean and she is back in business the next day? Is everyone trying to sweep it under the rug? |
Samantha Bee has lost 2 advertisers. We'll see.
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