BT mom feeling unprepared to parent FFB young adults

amother

Peach

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 9:36 am

We live OOT and are chilled yeshivish. I always felt like I was a reasonably good mom and mostly knew how to parent my kids - even with a couple kids with ADHD and learning challenges which made for some very challenging years. Anyway, so...

Here we are. My oldest (a girl) is 16, about to go into 11th grade, with a bunch of younger siblings right behind her. I'm feeling VERY unprepared for this new stage of her learning to drive, thinking about seminary, thinking about careers, shidduchim on the horizon....

The education she's received is nothing like what I received...her English education is subpar for sure. We willingly made the tradeoff because the alternative was sending to a school that wasn't a good match hashkafah-wise. B"H we're overall happy with our choice - she has good friends and good role models. But she's so behind in academics compared to where I was at her age (went to a good public school). I worry that she'll have to do all kinds of remedial courses if she wants to go for a degree.

When I was her age, I had a part-time job, and I was working hard at schoolwork because I wanted to get into a good college. I did extracurriculars and volunteered with a few organizations. DD doesn't have a regular job (she works at a camp for 1 month in the summer and sometimes babysits, but that's it). No volunteer work except the mandatory chesed program through school (1 hour a week). She's lazy about schoolwork, and her grades aren't great. She doesn't seem to care about things. Most of the girls in her class are the same - they just seem very immature to me. They're looking to have a good time and aren't thinking about the future. She's a "normal" kid, not a "problem" kid. She and her friends are all really nice girls, just not serious about life at this point.

I'm stressing because I don't see her having the maturity and life experience to handle marriage and motherhood in just a few years down the road! How do these girls go straight from a sheltered, easy life with few demands placed on them, to the challenges of marriage and motherhood? And I worry that parnassah might be very hard chv'sh with her weak academic background and lack of motivation as well as lack of workplace experience. Parenting is hard, parnassah is hard, marriage is hard - how is she going to be prepared to handle all these things? How can I help her now so that it's not a very difficult transition???

thunderstorm

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 9:42 am

16 is young. She sounds like a typical 16 yr old to me. Having good grades won't make her a good wife and mother. She may have to marry a responsible working boy that will support the family and not go the yeshivish way of the wife supporting the kollel husband.
She still has a nice few years to mature.
I was also way more mature than my own kids at age 16. The next generation is like that. But I did notice a huge difference in maturity in my own kids, literally from year to year.

amother

Plum

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 9:47 am

It's great that you're asking!
Hi I'm young, wife, 21 years old, born and raised OOT by BT parents.
So although I may not have advice, I know what life is like for your daughter.
I have no gone to college nor am I interested. I am struggling with finding work. I also believe that putting young babies in daycare all day is borderline abusive, and I wrnt into marriage with DH knowing that he is the main breadwinner, as it should be, as things have been for thousands of years.

Parnossah is from Hashem. Although I am struggling, as long as I am doing hishtadlus for panassah, whatever I can do at whatever time, the outcome is not in my hands.

Maturity wise my parents were emotionally abusive, and in short, I had to mature very young. So I have never had that carefree feeling your DD has.

I do seminary makes a woman out of many girls. Besides for that you should be teaching your daughter skills like how to run a house, cook, do laundry. Invest in her having hobbies. Honestly when it comes to parnassah, hobbies can often times work really well. Is she good at baking? Photography? Writing? Push her to get jobs, do chesed, and find things she likes to do, to find herself.

If she has to make up classes in the end, it'll be fine, she'll survive. Hashem will only send her what she can handle.

amother

Brunette

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 10:17 am

Responsible and mature behavior really have nothing to do with frum culture, more to do with home influence. You can find mature or irresponsible kids in any culture and religion. Has your daughter had experiences where she had to work to earn things? This is one of the most important indicator of maturity and adult success... The ability to push off self gratification for a goal.

If you think she lacks these things, you can facilitate teaching experiences for her.

Examples:

1. If you want your daughter to take school work seriously, you can explain that you expect such and such grades on her finals (according to her abilities), and there will be a reward for her efforts at studying to a achievement said grades. And consequences for failing to achieve those grades if you see it's because she partied instead of studying (for example, next year, you may not study with so and so for midterms because you shmoozed instead of studying and your grades reflected that.). Give her a goal to reach for...good grades will mean a new (insert whatever it is that will motivate her).

2. If you want her to take responsibility for financial things, look at her earning and spending habits... Is she earning money for extra chores at home, babysitting, or summer jobs? Is she responsible for covering some of her own expenses, like fun activities with friends or gifts for friends, or clothing beyond the specified amount that you will buy her each season? Was she taught to look at her earnings and predict future expenses so she can save? Does she have a bank account? 12 the grade is a great age to get a credit card, begin a good credit history, and deal with monthly statements. Does she understand how to take maaser and have specific tzedakos that she would like to see benefit from her maaser money?

3. Do you speak to her about her future plans? What does she want to get out of seminary besides a good time, because seminary is too expensive for just fun. How will she contribute to the cost of seminary (for example, you will cover plane fare and tuition but she must cover spending money). What does she want to pursue after seminary as a career? What are some things you can do now to begin preparing for that goal (entering 12th grade is NOT too young to think about this!)...speaking to people involved in her career choice, looking at schools, etc

You will.likely get some push back in the beginning, but set clear expectations, be one voice with her father, and stick to your expectations. She will mature with your guidance if you do this, and you will set her up for adult success in any culture. Hatzlacha!

amother

Peach

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 11:23 am

OP here. She has a savings account and pays for extras (gifts for friends, clothes and shoes beyond the basics, entertainment) out of that. When she was younger she paid 1/4 of her camp costs. She gives maaser. We've had her take some personality tests and career aptitude tests and we've started talking about career possibilities, but she's not very interested. She keeps saying she'll figure it out later, right now she's too young. Seminary ugh that's a frustrating topic, she doesn't seem to have any idea about what the whole point of seminary is, all her older friends rave about "amaaaazing" restaurants and experiences they had there, so that's all she's thinking about. (I don't want to pay for a year-long vacation!) As far as school goes, I don't want to pressure her about grades, because honestly the whole school atmosphere isn't very academic, and it wouldn't be fair of me to demand more of her than her friends' parents expect from their kids. It would just cause resentment, and it's not a battle I want to fight.

amother

Periwinkle

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 11:50 am

Hi OP,
I'm a convert and my DD is FFB. I have similar concerns about my DD. There is just no way for me to erase my background and what influenced me when I was growing up. Academics and a career was the expectation for all of us. And I'm raising a DD in a vastly different way than I was raised. Yet, I can't help but use my experience as a guide and yardstick.

On the other hand, I didn't know what I wanted to be when I was 16. I didn't know at 18. Changed my major in college several times. I was fortunate that somehow I got good grades but I didn't take school as seriously as some of my peers.

Your DD has time yet.

amother

Plum

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 11:57 am

amother wrote:

Your confidence is heartwarming. As someone old enough to be your mother, I can tell you that life doesn't always work that way. Don't believe me? Read some posts on this site about parnassah troubles.
.

I'm from a family who has pranossah struggles. Some days we didn't even have money for bread. My parents though were always yelling at each other, blaming each other, blaming us, and putting us through their financial stress. They both have this perspective "if we only did more or worked more we would have more money" rather than budgeting correctly and both sitting down to figure out what their hishtadlus is.

I may be fresh out of seminary still, but I think emunah is something I hope to have 20 years from now. Hishtadlus was a curse Hashem gave to us and you can work yourself harder, and it won't do anything. Hashem allots how much money you get.

One of my good friends has a similar financial situation growing up, but they had a happy healthy home with 14 kids. The kids knew they didn't have money but their parents constantly had emunah and somehow they got money. They had a warm loving house without money, and when one of their kids needed an expensive medical procedere, Hashem sent. When they started marrying them off, Hashem sent. They still have over half the kids at home and the father recently lost his job. They have insane emunah and I do not know how they make the end of the month...but somehow they do.

amother

Brunette

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 11:57 am

amother wrote:

Ok. I wrote the post about setting her up for maturity and success, and honestly, it sounds like you're doing great. It sounds like she'll likely decide on a career, etc, when she feels the push, all her friends will be working on what they want to do. Your guidance sounds really on target. I would now say, daven that she finds motivation for future success, and don't stress!

amother

Saddlebrown

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 12:00 pm

Give it time. They mature eventually just because they have to.... (I remember in my class the girls that knew they will soon start shiduchim where more mature than the ones that didn't or the ones that had a older siblings before them) just like the Israelis that go in tzava. They are young kids really. Before they go they enjoy their teenage free life. Then when they go to tzava, all of a sudden they grow up and become more serious and mature, because that's what their life expects from them.... Question

amother

Red

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 12:01 pm

I don’t think the issue is wether you are a BT or FFB. Sounds like the school choice is the issue. If he culture of the school is not a big emphasis on women doing well academically and having successfull careers than it would be u usual for your daughter to think differently. You can try to influence her at home but at the end of the day in my opinion it sounds like the school is failing to instill that message to her. Maybe I know it’s a good religious fit and sounds like you made academic compromises. So hopefully she will figure it all out on her own.

Rachel Shira

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 12:04 pm

As an FFB with BT parents, I think you’re doing fine. Most high schoolers are pretty self centered and that’s really pretty normal to a certain extent, as long as you’re not encouraging laziness, which it doesn’t seem like you are. She will mature in endless ways over the next few years, especially with the foundation you’re giving her. Don’t stress about her shidduchim or future parnassah. There’s only so much anyone can control that.
And FFB parents struggle with these same things!

southernbubby

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 12:11 pm

amother wrote:

I have an idea for them for parnassa; publish their story and go on the speakers circuit and teach others. Many people want to know how to stay happy and positive when they don't know how they are going to eat tomorrow.

amother

Blonde

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 12:15 pm

1st congrats on being a BT. This took for sure lots of strenght and hard work. The older I get and I see how hard it is to improve on things the more I admire BTs! Now to your concern: Funny but not funny. My daughter 15 1/2 to be precise, is a FFB daughter of FFB and if matters grandchild of FFB very unprepared for the future. We live in a very chasidish area. Her class is disasterous!!!!! They don't bother taking notes in class, they dont study for tests properly! It drives me up a wall ! School has failed! I demand and.she shows me how she makes numerous calls to get notes before a test and 90+ percent dont have! I was even thinking of sending an anonimus letter to high school and complain. She fails tests. Studies for them very superficial. (Then has to do make up tests) When I coach her she sometimes answers with attitude. Its a plague in her class thats just helping the situation. We all agreed to get her a tutor for one subject but its still not happening. How is she gonna hold a job soon?
Im as worried as you! I understand your extra worry because of you being a BT though.
And yes, please give me hugs. I need many for all sorts of problems.

amother

Orange

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 1:01 pm

I'm an FFB who took school seriously - starting from 11th or 12th grade. LOL

I went to seminary, which was not a year vacation. It was an excellent BY seminary. We had fun but we were also expected to prepare a lot and write a lot. We had reports and tests that pushed me more than I knew I could be pushed and I came out with excellent reading, comprehension and thinking skills.

I came home from seminary with no idea what I wanted to do so I got a job as an assistant in an elementary school and went to college - I started with the basic pre-requisites that any degree would require.

After changing my mind a few times, I finally chose a major, got a BS and a Masters and got an excellent job in my field.
Then I got married and moved to Israel and I now have 4 kids and a high level job in a totally different field.

Don't worry about it! If your daughter is not partying and doing drugs, she will settle down (and bring you much nachas!) before you know it!

hesha

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 2:16 pm

She sounds very normal. I would not worry about her. Yes as she gets older she’ll have to think more about what she wants to do with her life, but even if she decides to get a degree, she doesn’t have to have the best grades, average is fine too. It gets the job done. I’ve noticed an interesting thing about the several non frum treens I know (family and friends): although they seem more mature because they are more career driven and are working part time, I feel like it is a superficial maturity. They have less of a capacity to deal with life’s discomforts. They are much more me- oriented. Their middos are much less refined. Things that we have been hammering into our kids from early on like saying the truth, being honest, keeping a commitment even when it’s inconvenient, doing chessed even when you’re not in the mood etc . These things are not part of the public school curriculum. Their curriculum is definitely more academic but also highly lacking in middos/values. And at the end of the day that is what you need for a good marriage and to be a good parent. So in short I wouldn’t worry about your daughter ! She’ll
Do great!!

amother

Indigo

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 2:35 pm

Op, your experience is not the norm for the typical Byhs student. Most mothers I know feel our daughters are overworked by the double courseload of both Judaic and secular studies.
My daughters attend a very academically competitive Byhs (and elementary school) and are motivated to achieve. They do very well, but there’s definitely an atmosphere of hard work and competitiveness for their grades.
Their curriculum is monitored my the ministry and so we know it’s up to par with government standards. That’s of course besides the Judaic classes that they take as well.
My own ffb experience in my Byhs was the same.
We aced our regents, (we were embarrassed to admit if we scored under a 90). Those are government standardized test, and frankly, we didn’t find them that difficult. We also had a strong focus on limudai kodesh with the thought of getting into a top seminary always lingering in our minds.
Please don’t compare it to chassidish schools. Unfortunately they are not nearly up to the level of the typical By school.
You might want to find a more academic school for your next child. That seems to be the issue here.