Splurging for shabbos

Notsobusy

Mon, Jun 04 2018, 7:56 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

That's really funny, because I'm seeing the opposite. All the boys I know are STILL waiting to date until they're 23, yet I'm hearing more and more from the girls that they are pushing off dating until they are more established with their careers, finished college, etc.

Most of the Rosh Yeshivos are not on board with the 21 thing.

And in my circles (very frum) girls starting to date later is becoming more and more accepted.

So I'm not sure what you're seeing.

I agree. I can think of two guys in the past few years who got married at 21, neither one was yeshivish, and it had nothing to do with the "shidduch crisis". Boys getting married at 21 is a terrible idea, they are too young and immature.

I know both types of girls, some are waiting like mommyg8 said, others have parents who are so scared of the "shidduch crisis" that they're panicking if their daughters are over 20 and not married.

zaq

Mon, Jun 04 2018, 8:55 pm

amother wrote:

With Gashmiyus, I was referring to the basics of life, food, income, housing. If the basics are settled and there is stability in the home, spirituality has much more of chance of taking hold and expanding.

The reverse causes much pain, stress and can consequently decrease spirituality.

Chazal said it succinctly: Im ein kemach ein Torah.

amother

Silver

Mon, Jun 04 2018, 9:06 pm

zaq wrote:

Chazal said it succinctly: Im ein kemach ein Torah.

And yet, apparently, our generation seems to think we are smarter than Chazal.

amother

Floralwhite

Mon, Jun 04 2018, 10:00 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I think that an even better question is what to do when the family is already going without adequate food, medical and dental care, wearing torn shoes, etc. It is questionable to me, that even if the yeshiva gives such impoverished people complete scholarships, that children who grow up lacking enough clean diapers, and worried about how they will have utilities, won't be very receptive to what is being taught in yeshiva, even if it is totally free.

There are programs for such families. I really hope there are no families without the basics you are describing..

southernbubby

Mon, Jun 04 2018, 10:53 pm

amother wrote:

There are programs for such families. I really hope there are no families without the basics you are describing..

I don't currently know any personally who are that bad off but I am told that they do exist and that there are luckily chessed programs that provide some of the essentials.

Posters on here have described growing up in poverty or dysfunction without enough food or decent shoes. I have also read on Chabad sites where g'virim have put together gemachim for winter outerwear for poor kids who were walking to school without the proper protection from the cold.

amother

Chartreuse

Tue, Jun 05 2018, 4:57 am

Notsobusy wrote:

In the Yeshivish/litvish communities in England, most boys start shidduchim at 21. (Nothing to do with initiatives, it's just the way it is.) So I really think it's to do with what you're used to rather than maturity...

DVOM

Tue, Jun 05 2018, 11:01 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I guess we all have our own anecdotal evidence to support out point of view. I've heard of lots of boys starting to date at 21.

Mommyg8

Tue, Jun 05 2018, 12:56 pm

DVOM wrote:

I guess we all have our own anecdotal evidence to support out point of view. I've heard of lots of boys starting to date at 21.

We're obviously in different circles.

ETA: So now I'm genuinely curious - are these boys in yeshiva, college, doing both?

DVOM

Tue, Jun 05 2018, 4:55 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

We're obviously in different circles.

ETA: So now I'm genuinely curious - are these boys in yeshiva, college, doing both?

Yeshiva

Mommyg8

Tue, Jun 05 2018, 5:22 pm

DVOM wrote:

Yeshiva

So I guess they're bypassing the whole Eretz Yisroel thing?

It's really weird that the US is the only country where boys start shidduchim at 23, in Europe and Israel I understand they start at 21 (correct me if I'm wrong).

allthingsblue

Tue, Jun 05 2018, 6:17 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

They go to eretz Yisroel earlier.

allthingsblue

Tue, Jun 05 2018, 6:19 pm

southernbubby wrote:

There was one podcast that was specifically about BC for financial reasons and while the rabbonim prohibited it, there was a general consensus that there are some people who are not capable of adequately supporting a family and they might be in a different category then the type who needs to re-prioritize their spending in order to afford more children.

Rabbi Schachter did not prohibit it. I seem to remember that the rabbi from Baltimore had a middle-of-the-road view.

And the question of specifically tuition came up. It was asked whether not being able to afford tuition should be a factor in determining whether to go on bc.

bsy

Tue, Jun 05 2018, 6:55 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

They go to eretz Yisroel earlier.

Or not at all. My brother started dating at 21, got married at 22. Never learned in Israel.

Mommyg8

Tue, Jun 05 2018, 7:29 pm

bsy wrote:

Or not at all. My brother started dating at 21, got married at 22. Never learned in Israel.

Yes, I would imagine that's it. The yeshivos in Eretz Yisroel are not geared towards 19 year old boys (at least thats what my boys told me when I suggested we hurry up the process a bit Smile

). But not everyone wants to go to Israel to learn, so it's a win-win I guess.

amother

Chartreuse

Tue, Jun 05 2018, 7:37 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Yes, I would imagine that's it. The yeshivos in Eretz Yisroel are not geared towards 19 year old boys (at least thats what my boys told me when I suggested we hurry up the process a bit Smile

). But not everyone wants to go to Israel to learn, so it's a win-win I guess.

All the English boys that I know, who are learning, go to Yeshiva in Israel. And they still start shidduchim at 21.

But they often have only been in their Israeli Yeshivah for less than a year before they begin shidduchim. It's very different though since AIUI (correct me if I'm wrong), a lot of Americans go back to learn in the US while dating. The English boys don't do that.

chocolate moose

Fri, Jun 15 2018, 5:29 pm

So why don't we all move into hotels for Shabbos and hire maids and servants and wear silk clothes? HaShem is paying us back, right?

In fact, why don't we fly to an exotic locale every Thursday night? Or buy islands for ourselves and feast on duck?

grace413

Sun, Jun 17 2018, 1:37 am

chocolate moose wrote:

Sounds like a great plan! Very Happy

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Jun 17 2018, 1:42 am

To splurge does not mean to spend money you DONT have, it just means spending money more freely than you might have otherwise.

OP, if you dont have the money, its not splurging as you will have to be borrowing or going into debt to pay for that splurge. So it wont actually be a splurge. It will just be putting you further into a bad monetary spot.