Its about time | Imamother

rgr

Wed, Jun 06 2018, 12:16 pm

And increasingly, mothers’ names are omitted from wedding invitations, lest the mention of a “Rochel” or “Sara” invite male temptation

Pardon?

Maya

Wed, Jun 06 2018, 12:21 pm

rgr wrote:

And increasingly, mothers’ names are omitted from wedding invitations, lest the mention of a “Rochel” or “Sara” invite male temptation

Pardon?

On most mainstream Chassidish wedding invitations that I’ve seen, the mother’s name is not mentioned at all. It’s “Mr. Doe and Family,” or “Mr. and Mrs. John Doe.”

rgr

Wed, Jun 06 2018, 12:23 pm

Maya wrote:

On most mainstream Chassidish wedding invitations that I’ve seen, the mother’s name is not mentioned at all. It’s “Mr. Doe and Family,” or “Mr. and Mrs. John Doe.”

Got it thanks
Although isnt Mr. and Mrs John Doe standard albeit old fashioned way of addressing letters?

Maya

Wed, Jun 06 2018, 12:25 pm

rgr wrote:

Got it thanks
Although isnt Mr. and Mrs John Doe standard albeit old fashioned way of addressing letters?

Yes. It’s on the Hebrew side where the “and family” is written.

ETA: I think the literal translation is actually “and spouse”

amother

Lime

Wed, Jun 06 2018, 12:44 pm

Maya wrote:

Yes. It’s on the Hebrew side where the “and family” is written.

ETA: I think the literal translation is actually “and spouse”

I get hebrew inviations to bar mitzvah's that come from Menachem Swartz and spouse

(of course its 'spouse' who is doing the majority of the planning... including designing the invitation).

Ruchel

Wed, Jun 06 2018, 12:57 pm

I hate raayato. Ew.
But Mr and Mrs, is a classic...
I often see grandparents as Mr and Mrs, and parents as Mr JOhn and Mrs Jane, or Mr and Mrs John and Jane, or even John and Jane.

amother

Lime

Wed, Jun 06 2018, 1:37 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I hate raayato. Ew.
But Mr and Mrs, is a classic...
I often see grandparents as Mr and Mrs, and parents as Mr JOhn and Mrs Jane, or Mr and Mrs John and Jane, or even John and Jane.

right, thanks "raayato" was the word I was missing.

Sadie

Wed, Jun 06 2018, 1:56 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I hate raayato. Ew.
But Mr and Mrs, is a classic...
I often see grandparents as Mr and Mrs, and parents as Mr JOhn and Mrs Jane, or Mr and Mrs John and Jane, or even John and Jane.

What do you see as the difference between John Doe v’raayato and Mr and Mrs John Doe? They’re functionality equivalent. The wife is alluded to but not named in either case. They both gross me out.

pause

Wed, Jun 06 2018, 2:04 pm

Sadie wrote:

I agree that they're the same thing, though neither one grosses me out. I couldn't care less.

InnerMe

Wed, Jun 06 2018, 2:09 pm

Sadie wrote:

This is actually the traditional way couples are addressed.

"Married, she uses her husband’s name socially
Mr. and Mrs. John Kelly"

http://emilypost.com/advice/gu.....ence/

I also found the following link which address the subject question.

https://www.cliseetiquette.com.....oman/

Personally, I like the "Mr. & Mrs." form over the "vrayaso." The former is traditional, the latter just makes no sense.

SixOfWands

Wed, Jun 06 2018, 2:14 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I hate raayato. Ew.
But Mr and Mrs, is a classic...
I often see grandparents as Mr and Mrs, and parents as Mr JOhn and Mrs Jane, or Mr and Mrs John and Jane, or even John and Jane.

Purely on etiquette grounds, Mr. John and Mrs. Jane suggests that the couple is divorced, although that's not always the case anymore.

seeker

Wed, Jun 06 2018, 2:21 pm

InnerMe wrote:

I thought it was just a Hebrew vs English thing, with English having "Mrs." and Hebrew having "rayaso"

amother

Lime

Wed, Jun 06 2018, 2:23 pm

Sadie wrote:

Mr. and Mrs. seem like a team.

Jon and his wife seem less team like. Spitting hairs.

In English (old school) if the Mr. passes away the invitation would come from Mrs. John Smith. What would be in hebrew?

InnerMe

Wed, Jun 06 2018, 2:30 pm

seeker wrote:

I thought it was just a Hebrew vs English thing, with English having "Mrs." and Hebrew having "rayaso"

Makes sense.
But to me it sounds awkward. "Mr. John Doe and his spouse"
As if the spouse is added merely as an afterthought.

SixOfWands

Wed, Jun 06 2018, 2:31 pm

Sadie wrote:

Traditionally, a woman was formally addressed as Mrs. HisFirstName HisLastName. So if an invitaiton were going to you only, it would be addressed to Mrs. John Doe. Thus, "Mr. and Mrs. John Doe" refers directly to you.

Personally, I abhor that form of address, but I do understand its history.

"V'raayato" isn't referring to the woman directly, or calling her by any name that she uses in any form. Its the functional equivalent of "hey you."

amother

Cerulean

Wed, Jun 06 2018, 2:50 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

I always thought it meant 'and his family' embarrassed

bsy

Wed, Jun 06 2018, 3:52 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I hate raayato. Ew.
But Mr and Mrs, is a classic...
I often see grandparents as Mr and Mrs, and parents as Mr JOhn and Mrs Jane, or Mr and Mrs John and Jane, or even John and Jane.

Me too. So on my wedding invitation, I made sure it had both my parents' names.

soap suds

Wed, Jun 06 2018, 6:03 pm

amother wrote:

Honestly, who cares???

Exactly. Do we have to read into everything so deeply? Having my name spelled out in the invitation wouldn't give me any more or less recognition. People appreciate me just as much and acknowledge my role in raising the child/preparing the simcha or whatever else my name is supposed to symbolize regardless of what's printed on the invitation. (In all honesty, who even reads it?)