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DH moved out. Support?
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amother
Copper


 

Post Sun, Jun 10 2018, 11:51 pm
DH moved out last month, and says he is going to send me the get. In the meantime he says he'll pay the bills for the next two months until the lease runs out on our appartment, and after that I'm on my own.

Does he have any halalchic obligation to support me until he sends the get, or until I am back on my feet?

I don't have a rabbi to ask, for various reasons. It's complicated.

ETA: I forgot to add, he's also left the country, and I don't know where he is living now.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Sun, Jun 10 2018, 11:54 pm
I don't know about a rabbi, but you definitely need a lawyer.
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Sun, Jun 10 2018, 11:58 pm
Are you getting legally divorced (apart from halachically)?
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lkwdlady




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 11 2018, 12:03 am
Are there any kids? If so, he will always need to send support. If you didn’t have children together according to your kesuba he is required to support you as long as you are married. Not sure if he is required to support you if you decided to get divorced.
Makes no sense that you can’t speak to a rav even anonymously
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ellacoe




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 11 2018, 12:37 am
You can call the Beis Din of America and ask them your halachic questions about divorce and the get. (No matter where you are located)

https://bethdin.org/gittin/

The website has some useful information.

The support rules civilly depend on a few issues; Are you getting legally divorced? Do you have any children with him? How long were your married for? Do you earn an income? Are you in the USA?

Support varies by state in the US. Several factors play a part, if you have children, how many, and it is based on both your incomes. Spousal support (in NY) is based in your incomes and the duration of the marriage, but there also other considerations that can be factored in, depending on your situation.

It would be a good idea to speak to a lawyer. Depending on where you are there are free or low cost lawyers available.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 11 2018, 9:06 am
Hatzlacha getting through this and beyond.
I'm sure you have a good reason for not asking a rav but won't a rav have to be involved with the get?
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simcha2




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 11 2018, 9:22 am
I could be wrong, but I don't think he can send you a get. I think he has to hand it to you, with eidim, and you have to accept it.

Please call a lawyer and a rav and maybe a PI to find out where he is. You don't want to be left an aguna.
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ellacoe




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 11 2018, 9:25 am
simcha2 wrote:
I could be wrong, but I don't think he can send you a get. I think he has to hand it to you, with eidim, and you have to accept it.

Please call a lawyer and a rav and maybe a PI to find out where he is. You don't want to be left an aguna.


I have been told that a get can be sent by a shaliach or left in a local Bais Din to be picked up. The Bais Din of America will answer questions regardless of if you use them or not.
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amother
Ginger


 

Post Mon, Jun 11 2018, 9:26 am
simcha2 wrote:
I could be wrong, but I don't think he can send you a get. I think he has to hand it to you, with eidim, and you have to accept it.

Please call a lawyer and a rav and maybe a PI to find out where he is. You don't want to be left an aguna.

A get is able to be sent through messengers in front of a bais din if the two parties are not in the same city.
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 11 2018, 9:51 am
Meseches Gittin discusses all the possible ways to deliver a gett. If she trusts him to give her one, don’t worry about the delivery. Through a shaila here across the world is totally fine.

Last edited by Iymnok on Mon, Jun 11 2018, 12:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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simcha2




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 11 2018, 9:57 am
Glad to be mistaken.

(Though still think it is a good idea to consult a lawyer, rav and possibly someone to identify where he is).
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ellacoe




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 11 2018, 10:54 am
Depending on where you are, if you were married civilly and he was supporting you, the "state" does not want you to be in a position where you could become a ward of the state, I.e. become homeless, need benefits etc. so the rules for spousal support could vary from the norm requiring him to give you additional support.
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amother
Copper


 

Post Tue, Jun 12 2018, 3:41 am
OP here. I am in Israel, and I don't speak Ivrit well. I don't know any rabbis here who speak English well, only Hebrew and Yiddish.

No kids together, B'H. I didn't work because I am unwell, and DH suppported me. Because I am unwell, I didn't go to shul often, so I don't have a kesher with any rabbis here, but stbx knows all of them. I'm afraid of what he might have said about me.

Stbx left me with very little money, so I don't know how I would afford an attorney. There are low income attorneys, but the waiting list to even see one is very long. I could starve to death in the meantime.

It's hard to say "who left who". I started talking about divorce, so see if he was interested in therapy. Instad, he moved out. So he will say "She kicked me out".

Sorry if some of this doesn't make sense. My head is spinning right now.
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amother
Jade


 

Post Tue, Jun 12 2018, 3:46 am
amother wrote:
OP here. I am in Israel, and I don't speak Ivrit well. I don't know any rabbis here who speak English well, only Hebrew and Yiddish.

No kids together, B'H. I didn't work because I am unwell, and DH suppported me. Because I am unwell, I didn't go to shul often, so I don't have a kesher with any rabbis here, but stbx knows all of them. I'm afraid of what he might have said about me.

Stbx left me with very little money, so I don't know how I would afford an attorney. There are low income attorneys, but the waiting list to even see one is very long. I could starve to death in the meantime.

It's hard to say "who left who". I started talking about divorce, so see if he was interested in therapy. Instad, he moved out. So he will say "She kicked me out".

Sorry if some of this doesn't make sense. My head is spinning right now.


How long were you married for?
How were you supported before marriage?
How will you pay your rent/bills now?
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grace413




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 12 2018, 3:52 am
Sorry you are going through this.

You need to move quickly.

If you have no idea where he is that is a major problem.

Here are a few organizations that may be able to help you.

https://mavoisatum.org/en/

http://www.cwj.org.il/en

https://iyim.org.il/get/help/

The longer he has to disappear the less your chances are of receiving a get.
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nadvorna




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 12 2018, 4:15 am
If you are in Israel, however you receive a get, it has to be through the Rabbinate, and you can be sure that he will get away with anything he wants and leave you high and dry, taking advantage of the fact that you are unwell, your unfamiliarity with what you are entitled to and especially your difficulty with Hebrew. They do not allow interpreters there. I am not speculating here; I've learned all this the hard way. You need a lawyer otherwise you are toast, but it doesn't have to cost you. There is an organization called la'isha who primarily deal with agunot, but are sensitive to women at every stage of the process and provide free representation in the Beis Din. In particular, there is a frum lawyer, a lovely lady called Osnat who speaks a very good English and is familiar with all your rights in the law and Halacha and also knows the lawyers and Dayonim in the Beis Din so you know who you are up against when you go to the Beis Din and meet his representation. Their number is 02 6733015. There will have to be at least one hearing besides the actual divorce which can be done by proxy. If he doesn't turn up, that puts you in a better position as he is seen as being uncooperative. If you can't determine his whereabouts, this organization can help you with that. But whatever you do, please please do not walk into that the Beis Din alone!
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amother
Copper


 

Post Tue, Jun 12 2018, 4:22 am
nadvorna wrote:
If you are in Israel, however you receive a get, it has to be through the Rabbinate, and you can be sure that he will get away with anything he wants and leave you high and dry, taking advantage of the fact that you are unwell, your unfamiliarity with what you are entitled to and especially your difficulty with Hebrew. They do not allow interpreters there. I am not speculating here; I've learned all this the hard way. You need a lawyer otherwise you are toast, but it doesn't have to cost you. There is an organization called la'isha who primarily deal with agunot, but are sensitive to women at every stage of the process and provide free representation in the Beis Din. In particular, there is a frum lawyer, a lovely lady called Osnat who speaks a very good English and is familiar with all your rights in the law and Halacha and also knows the lawyers and Dayonim in the Beis Din so you know who you are up against when you go to the Beis Din and meet his representation. Their number is 02 6733015. There will have to be at least one hearing besides the actual divorce which can be done by proxy. If he doesn't turn up, that puts you in a better position as he is seen as being uncooperative. If you can't determine his whereabouts, this organization can help you with that. But whatever you do, please please do not walk into that the Beis Din alone!


Wow, I am so sorry you had to learn this from experience!

I will look into the info you gave me. Thank you very much.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Tue, Jun 12 2018, 4:27 am
Dr. Rachel Levmore at IYIM is a native English speaker. She might be a good first step.
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nadvorna




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 12 2018, 4:37 am
I am happy to help you with anything you need to know; there is no reason why every woman should go through a steep and difficult learning curve when it can be saved by information from those who have already done it. Feel free to pm me about anything you want, or for my number so that we can speak. Hugs.
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Teomima




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 12 2018, 6:17 am
I'm so sorry you're going through this, OP. You got some really amazing advice above. I also second Lawngreen's suggestion to be in touch with Rachel Levmore (I can not emphasize this enough to soon-to-be-newlyweds: sign her Agreement For Mutual Respect [a halachic pre-nup] before getting married!!).

Also, if you are unwell and can't work, are you getting disability? You should definitely be in touch with Bituach Leumi to apply for nechut. It's not a ton of money, but it can make a huge difference, plus it can potentially get you discounts on things like arnona and even public transportation fares. You can also (as a short term solution) apply for unemployment. I'm sure this is all so overwhelming right now, but don't wait till he cuts you off before figuring out how to support yourself. If need be, contact an organization like Paamonin. They can help you come up with a financial plan for your future and meanwhile possibly give you a grant to help you get started.
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