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amother




Royalblue


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 8:20 am
I am at my wits end and I just don’t know what to do. Please please advise me!!
My only child, a daughter, will be 4 in October.
When she was around 2.5 years, I tried toilet training using the short 3 day method. It failed miserably and I realised she just wasn’t ready, so I put her back in diapers after a week.

I tried again Purim time and it went really well. I did have to keep reminding her but she was excited and barely had accidents. I can’t remember if I used incentives. This went on till a week later when we flew to my parents and in laws for pesach. She was having around one accident a day and my mother in law wasn’t having it so she insisted we use pull up diapers. Obviously, from then on my daughter didn’t use the toilet.

A month later we were back in Israel and I put her back in underwear. It has been almost 3 months since then and the situation has gotten steadily worse. She does multiple accidents a day, says she doesn’t need whenever I ask her, and doesn’t care about it.

I have tried sticker charts, with a sticker for every wee she does and fantastic prices at the end. She did go plenty times to the toilet to get her stickers but then would still have accidents - she knew she’d still get the prize, although it did work in the beginning.

I have tried a prize at the end of the day if she keeps her underwear dry all day. That worked in the beginning but very quickly it has developed into a situation where she refuses to go to the toilet most times and is having huge accidents multiple times a day.

I think the problems with her is that she:
1. Gets bored of the star chart/prize system very quickly, even though I change the prizes and rewards every day.
2. Has no internal motivation to be toilet trained. She has an extremely relaxed personality and doesn’t care at all to be soaking wet. She would rather stay in her wet underwear than change them!
To date, she has never made a poo in her underwear.

I am unsure whether to seek outside help at this point. It seems to me that she does have the ability cos she has done it before and is just lazy - unless she only feels the urge when it’s too late??

I have spent so many months on this and I am so frustrated and disappointed and am trying hard not to take it out on her but I really need help on how to deal with this.

Thank you to those who answer - literally lifesavers!
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amother




Crimson


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 8:31 am
my pediatrician told me that they would check to make sure everything was ok with her medically and if it was to not make it in to a power struggle. He said if the kid doesn't want to just wait. He told me not worry at all until after 4 so you actually still have time Wink

In our case my daughter was having bladder infections and one sign was the fact that after being basically potty trained she would start having accidents. The other sign was that her urine had a strong smell. So we are working on taking care of the infections which DOES need to be addressed.
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losingweight




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 8:32 am
Did you speak to your pediatrician? Perhaps you need to consult with a urologist?

What works for me all the time is to keep taking my kids to the bathroom. I don't wait for them to ask to go. After a week they usually come to me. I simply don't give them a chance to set their pants. And I give them a treat every time. Like two jelly beans.
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amother




Royalblue


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 8:35 am
amother wrote:
my pediatrician told me that they would check to make sure everything was ok with her medically and if it was to not make it in to a power struggle. He said if the kid doesn't want to just wait. He told me not worry at all until after 4 so you actually still have time Wink


Thanks for your reply. The thing is that my daughter really wants to wear underwear, probably cos of the association to big girls. She would be gutted if I mentioned putting diapers back on her.
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amother




Pewter


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 8:35 am
A few points.
Does she go to gan? Sometimes the ganenet is more able to help than the mother.

I would stop all the prizes and take off the pressure. If she has an accident, just change her without saying anything and carry on. Eventually she will come to you for it.

It is much harder training an only child because she doesn't see other children using the bathroom. Has she got friends who she can go to? She needs to see that her friends go to the bathroom at home. Then she will be more interested.

Talk to her about next year. All the girls in gan will be going to the bathroom. No one is going to be wet. Do you want to be big like them?

Is she dry at night? It could be if you get rid of the diapers at night, she will begin to be dry by day.
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amother




Royalblue


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 8:37 am
losingweight wrote:
Did you speak to your pediatrician? Perhaps you need to consult with a urologist?

What works for me all the time is to keep taking my kids to the bathroom. I don't wait for them to ask to go. After a week they usually come to me. I simply don't give them a chance to set their pants. And I give them a treat every time. Like two jelly beans.


No I haven’t spoken to the pediatrician. I wouldn’t want to speak to him in front of her because she would understand and be embarrassed. Do you think I can make an appointment and not bring her along? Seems a bit strange cos it would be under her name...

I did do that in the beginning and she did start going on her own, but every time, she would regress after a short time when it stopped being exciting.
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amother




Royalblue


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 8:41 am
amother wrote:
A few points.
Does she go to gan? Sometimes the ganenet is more able to help than the mother.

I would stop all the prizes and take off the pressure. If she has an accident, just change her without saying anything and carry on. Eventually she will come to you for it.

It is much harder training an only child because she doesn't see other children using the bathroom. Has she got friends who she can go to? She needs to see that her friends go to the bathroom at home. Then she will be more interested.

Talk to her about next year. All the girls in gan will be going to the bathroom. No one is going to be wet. Do you want to be big like them?

Is she dry at night? It could be if you get rid of the diapers at night, she will begin to be dry by day.


Thanks for your reply.
She does go to gan. The ganenet encourages her to go to the toilet but she always answers that she doesn’t need. Then when she has an accident the ganenet changes her. This is a recent development - till this week she would be able to hold herself in all the morning whilst in gan and never had accidents there.
I’ll think about removing all prizes. I’m just not sure with her chilled nature that she’ll ever care about keeping dry.
All her friends are toilet trained and so she sees everyone going in gan.
She is no way near being dry at night. In the morning her diaper is sodden.
I appreciate all your comments!
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Eemaof3




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 8:43 am
I agree about the pediatrician. Rule out any medical issues.
When she wets herself, have her change her wet clothes. Don't give her the attention associated with you changing her. At almost four she should be able to do this herself.
This is really hard but it will pass.
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amother




Pewter


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 8:46 am
She needs to see kids going at home as well.

Even with an easy going nature, take away all the prizes. From experience, if it stops being an issue, it will come automatically. It might take time, but it will come.

If she is nowhere near dry at night, then she is having a hard time during the day not because of her nature but because she is not quite ready yet. Most kids once they are really ready as in it is not difficult for them, are more or less dry at night as well. (Unless they are very deep sleepers or drink a lot in the night). Does she have any weak muscle tone?
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amother




Blush


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 8:47 am
I would do a couple of things. One, she doesn't have a choice about using the bathroom when you say it's bathroom time. Meals are eaten at meal time, we get into bed at bed time, and we use the bathroom at bathroom time. The end. Will you have to schedule bathroom time forever? No. But she desperately needs it now, since she won't do it if left to her own devices. And hopefully she will actually gain some motivation once she succeeds in staying dry.

Second, don't clean up her messes. Calmly hand her paper towels to clean the floor. Wipes to clean herself off. And new clothing. She is responsible for cleaning up the mess and herself, changing her clothing, and putting the wet clothing in the washing machine. This isn't a punishment, it's simply the natural consequence of making a mess, even if it's a mistake: she cleans it up.

Nighttime training is a completely different skill. Don't worry about it now.
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amother




Royalblue


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 8:47 am
Eemaof3 wrote:
I agree about the pediatrician. Rule out any medical issues.
When she wets herself, have her change her wet clothes. Don't give her the attention associated with you changing her. At almost four she should be able to do this herself.
This is really hard but it will pass.


Thanks. So do you think I should bring her with? Will he want to examine her? Because it may be so embarrassing for her to hear me discussing this with him.
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amother




Blush


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 8:49 am
amother wrote:

If she is nowhere near dry at night, then she is having a hard time during the day not because of her nature but because she is not quite ready yet. Most kids once they are really ready as in it is not difficult for them, are more or less dry at night as well. (Unless they are very deep sleepers or drink a lot in the night). Does she have any weak muscle tone?


I disagree with this. All of my kids trained easily before age 3 (some before 2) and had no accidents once trained. Yet they still needed nighttime diapers for varying lengths of time, some several years. It's a different skill.
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amother




Royalblue


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 8:50 am
amother wrote:
She needs to see kids going at home as well.

Even with an easy going nature, take away all the prizes. From experience, if it stops being an issue, it will come automatically. It might take time, but it will come.

If she is nowhere near dry at night, then she is having a hard time during the day not because of her nature but because she is not quite ready yet. Most kids once they are really ready as in it is not difficult for them, are more or less dry at night as well. (Unless they are very deep sleepers or drink a lot in the night). Does she have any weak muscle tone?


Ok, I will try removing the prizes. Recently she hasn’t been getting any anyway because of all the accidents.
She does take a bottle of water to bed with her but I’m pretty sure she doesn’t drink during the night. However, when I’m saying shema with her she drinks tons. Probably because she’s not a good drinker during the day.
So do you still think she’s not ready?
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amother




Pewter


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 8:52 am
amother wrote:


Second, don't clean up her messes. Calmly hand her paper towels to clean the floor. Wipes to clean herself off. And new clothing. She is responsible for cleaning up the mess and herself, changing her clothing, and putting the wet clothing in the washing machine. This isn't a punishment, it's simply the natural consequence of making a mess, even if it's a mistake: she cleans it up.

Nighttime training is a completely different skill. Don't worry about it now.


If she is very easygoing by nature she just won't bother and it will become a whole fight. I think that right now you need to reduce the pressure by a lot on yourself as well as on her.
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amother




Royalblue


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 8:54 am
amother wrote:
I would do a couple of things. One, she doesn't have a choice about using the bathroom when you say it's bathroom time. Meals are eaten at meal time, we get into bed at bed time, and we use the bathroom at bathroom time. The end. Will you have to schedule bathroom time forever? No. But she desperately needs it now, since she won't do it if left to her own devices. And hopefully she will actually gain some motivation once she succeeds in staying dry.

Second, don't clean up her messes. Calmly hand her paper towels to clean the floor. Wipes to clean herself off. And new clothing. She is responsible for cleaning up the mess and herself, changing her clothing, and putting the wet clothing in the washing machine. This isn't a punishment, it's simply the natural consequence of making a mess, even if it's a mistake: she cleans it up.

Nighttime training is a completely different skill. Don't worry about it now.


For a while I did force her to use the toilet, and she remained dry. But then I was told by a friend to stop cos she is relying on me and so will never learn the skill of independence in going to toilet because she actually needs. So I stopped enforcing regular toilet breaks and just enforce it when we are about to leave the house. What do you think about that?
The other advice re cleaning accidents, I already do.
Thanks!
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amother




Blush


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 8:58 am
amother wrote:
For a while I did force her to use the toilet, and she remained dry. But then I was told by a friend to stop cos she is relying on me and so will never learn the skill of independence in going to toilet because she actually needs. So I stopped enforcing regular toilet breaks and just enforce it when we are about to leave the house. What do you think about that?
The other advice re cleaning accidents, I already do.
Thanks!


You stopped doing what was working. Of course she's relying on you- that's why it's called training. No, I promise she won't rely on you forever. Typically developing children eventually start going independently. Some kids train quickly, some take more time. But right now, the only was she stays dry is with you scheduling her bathroom time. Staying dry is success. Keep doing it.
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amother




Pewter


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 9:00 am
amother wrote:
Ok, I will try removing the prizes. Recently she hasn’t been getting any anyway because of all the accidents.
She does take a bottle of water to bed with her but I’m pretty sure she doesn’t drink during the night. However, when I’m saying shema with her she drinks tons. Probably because she’s not a good drinker during the day.
So do you still think she’s not ready?


It doesn't really matter if she is ready or not because you can't go backwards now. The thing to remember is that she is not ready to do this automatically. She needs reminders, she doesn't necessarily know what you want from her. If you keep this in mind, it will be much easier on you. It seems to me that part of the issue here is that you (rightly!) are feeling frustrated and fed up. So just keep in mind that this child is not 100% there yet.

I would never, ever refuse a drink to a thirsty child BUT I would try and push the drink time earlier. Try and make sure she is drinking more through the afternoon so that she doesn't need to drink a lot at bedtime.

When I was toilet training my eldest, a very experienced mother told me that as long as a child has an opportunity, whether by day or by night, to relax the control, it will be hard to make it automatic. I have since trained seven of my own and really found it true. I did have a couple still in diapers at night at age 5 but those were very deep sleepers and I did find that they were the ones who were more likely to have accidents through the day.

She may not be ready at night. On the other hand, she may be getting mixed messages. Not sure when yes, when no.

and it sounds ridiculous but have you tried talking to her about it?
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naomi2




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 9:37 am
See if the receptionist at the Dr can keep an eye in her for 5 min in the waiting room while you explain to the Dr and then call her in
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amother




Royalblue


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 9:58 am
amother wrote:
You stopped doing what was working. Of course she's relying on you- that's why it's called training. No, I promise she won't rely on you forever. Typically developing children eventually start going independently. Some kids train quickly, some take more time. But right now, the only was she stays dry is with you scheduling her bathroom time. Staying dry is success. Keep doing it.


I hear you. It will mean a lot of conflict. She’s strong willed and will put up a fight every time I tell her to go. If I’m always telling her when to go, when will I know when she’s trained and I can stop?
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proudmomma




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jun 11 2018, 10:00 am
Hug op it is so difficult! I'm in a similar situation with my daughter and can truly empathize! She'll also be 4 in October. She also doesn't care if her panty is wet and usually won't tell me. I was told not to worry about it until she's 4. Dealing with the almost daily accidents is driving me crazy!!!

I'm going to order the potty watch. It's a watch the kid wears that beeps at intervals that you set & reminds them to go to the bathroom. I'm hoping that the excitement of wearing a watch like a grown-up will work. Good luck! Remember deep breaths😁
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