Son wants to go to a chiloni school (israel)

DrMom

Mon, Jun 25 2018, 7:30 am

amother wrote:

Some of the posts here are beyond me. If you're frum you firmly believe that this is the best (or arguably the only) way of life down here as well as for eternity. How can a parent not wish this for their child?
To me it seems rather shallow to value your own relationship with your child over his ultimate good. Parenting is about taking yourself out the picture completely and honestly acting in the child's best interests. Always.
Of course that doesn't mean forcing or some other questionable means of persuasion. It ain't gonna work with human beings. But when the heart and mind is in the right place, the right actions will follow.
And guess what, when kids sense that their parents care about them more than anything else, the relationship that develops is deeper and better than ever.

I don't think those who don't force their child to continue to attend from school are doing it solwly because they want to preserve their relationship with their children.

amother

Lawngreen

Mon, Jun 25 2018, 9:29 am

This is a very tough and challenging situation difficult to grasp sometimes if someone has not had a child in this type of struggle.
It goes beyond schools.
It is very challenging for the parent to know whats the best decision in the best interest of the child.
Daven daven daven.
Do all you can as I'm sure you already are to make a keili for brochos.
Keep the communication open loving and nonjudgmental which it sounds like you already are.
May you be blessed with nachas from all your children.
Sometimes these more challenging children are the ones who are most sensitive and from whom you ultimately see enormous nachas. My heart goes out to this child so much also.
One step in front of the other.
hugs and hatzlocha

amother

Azure

Mon, Jun 25 2018, 10:11 am

amother wrote:

I think that the child's best interests are usually best served by maintaining a warm and supportive relationship with the parents.
The ultimate good of a child is not to forcefully push him to be be frum. The ultimate good is to ensure that you, the parent, are always a source of love and support.
A parent can wish a lot of things for their kid, but sometimes the parent needs to take two steps back and wait, or risk losing the child forever.

It's not a battle between the relationship with the parents and being frum (or any other goal the parent desires). Because if the relationship is destroyed, there is no way the kid will want to be frum anyway.

amother

Azure

Mon, Jun 25 2018, 10:19 am

ora_43 wrote:

Most posters seem to be relating to this as a religious-secular issue. Which it obviously is, to some extent. But it's also a 5 schools in 4 years issue.

I haven't been in that situation. But I don't think I'd let a child, even a teenager, choose a 6th school in 4 years. At least not without meeting some preconditions. What makes him think switch #5 is going to be the solution? With no connection to whether potential School #6 is secular, hareidi, or anything in between.

This isn't a "may as well try" situation; each school switch is an academic setback.

Not that I recommend a flat "no," either. More like, "you can switch if":

- he sees a counselor. Not necessarily a psychologist. But someone who can help him figure out what it is that he finds frustrating/difficult about learning (doesn't fit in socially? undiagnosed learning disability? The fact that he had issues with five schools suggests he has issues with school, period - figure out what those are). And what it is he wants in the future.

- he researches schools on his own. Because this is switch #5, "my friends seem to like it" isn't enough. He should look at multiple school options, and present an educated argument in favor of the one he likes most.

- summer classes. Since he hasn't been doing well in school for 4 years, and started in a different school system, he'll have some catching up to do. If he really thinks he'll take school #6 more seriously than the others, he can prove that by taking learning seriously starting now.

The above are just my suggestions, there are certainly other possible conditions (summer job, certain GPA, etc). I would definitely insist on the counselor, though. And/or a full learning diagnosis (ie ivchun psychodidacti).

FTR I think it might be best to focus on this aspect of the situation when talking to him. IE, not "Shmuly, if you want to go a secular school, here's what you have to do," but more, "Shmuly, I understand that you want to go to School X next year. I'm glad you told me that. But honey, while I'd love to see you in a school that you enjoy, this is the fifth time you're asking to switch schools. I'm not saying 'no' to a sixth school, but if we're doing another switch, I want all of us to invest some serious effort in making sure this is the last switch. For example, by (conditions)."

I think some of you don't have a lot of experience with teenagers, certainly not teenagers at risk.
You aren't in a position to push a bunch of conditions on most 16 year olds in Israel. He knows, and you know, and the teachers know, that you can't force him to do anything. You can't force him to go to any school. If he doesn't show up to school, the most any of you will get after a few months is a nu-nu-nu. If it continues, they will insist you find him a school he wants to go to.

I agree a serious discussion is in order, and the suggestions above should be mentioned. But I don't know that I would imposte 'conditions', unless the kid is still open to those kinds of things. Otherwise it could totally backfire.

amother

Periwinkle

Mon, Jun 25 2018, 10:56 am

amother wrote:

I think I've been misunderstood here. I was talking about the attitude among parents who want their kids to like them and put this before everything else, these parents can't say 'no' even to their kids detriment whether it is a health issue such as too much junk food or even a more serious chinuch issue eg. a parent told me she's vehemently against allowing a child to go to a particular place but when the child asked to attend she said 'yes' because she can't refuse her child. Is this being kind?
I have actually had grown adults tell me that they are saddened their parents didn't stand up to them more.
Basically what I'm saying is don't be too concerned on the 'now', a good relationship now that is borne out of a fear of healthy confrontations often leads to a souring in the relationship later.
There seems to be a prevalent attitude amongst some parents to avoid uncomfortable debates at all costs and I think this is not healthy.
Of course we can't force our ways or opinions on others but a lively discourse is okay as long as it's respectful.