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Kiddush for baby girl - but we cant afford it
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amother




Amber


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 6:04 am
We just had a beautiful baby girl ka"h after years of waiting for her. Normally, people give a kiddush for a girl, some say it has some spiritual ramifications on her life if you do not do that.
The issue is, that, here in our place, the standard for a girl kiddush is from 4500 dollar up (lately more like 8000), people bring in cakes from abroad and all that. Plus there usually are several simchas on a shabbos so your kiddush is directly competing with others. We cannot (and do not want to) afford that craze. But we do not want to skip the kiddush altogether.
Sharing it with someone is no option.
We are BT and have zero family support. The next substantially frum shul is 5 hours drive away (we are NOT in NYC), so going away for it is no option, either.
What would you do?
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amother




Chartreuse


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 6:08 am
Make a party at home after shul with homemade baked goods! It doesn't have to be this week, it can be when you're ready.
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Ruchel









  


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 6:10 am
Thousands dollars for something not halacha mandated? I don't know what to say. We had great namings for so much less. We didn't rent the shul, so people who go to shul were there, which we actually like. We did pay the food. You can have the kiddush for her bas mitsva. There is zero ramification to not having.
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amother




Oak


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 6:11 am
Mazel tov! Enjoy your sweet little one and don't worry about making a kiddush. One of the joys of having a girl is that you're not bound to host an event a week later. Make a kiddush when your finances are in better shape, or when you are up to doing things yourself. Be'ezrat Hashem, you'll have many wonderful events to come. Staying off the treadmill of unrealistic expectations will serve you well in many ways over time.
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amother




Peach


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 6:21 am
amother wrote:
Mazel tov! Enjoy your sweet little one and don't worry about making a kiddush. One of the joys of having a girl is that you're not bound to host an event a week later. Make a kiddush when your finances are in better shape, or when you are up to doing things yourself. Be'ezrat Hashem, you'll have many wonderful events to come. Staying off the treadmill of unrealistic expectations will serve you well in many ways over time.


The bolded contradicts with your last sentence.
No, even if she can afford it, there is no need to spend a few thousand dollars on a kiddush.
Wow. In my circles, even $100 would cut it. A bit of cheap cake (often including what people send in), crisps, lchaim, drinks etc.
And many people do it just for men or only for close relatives and friends (Yes, there will be outrage here for it, but the reason is that a) the wife just gave birth and often prefers to be left out of it and b) it's much cheaper.)
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amother




Burgundy


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 6:35 am
When our first daughter was born and finances were tight we made a kiddush at home. It was a drop in after shul. (It was a week after she was born via c section because of family pressure -which I don't suggest) so I ordered bakery cookies and cakes. If it has been later I would have baked and saved the money. It was very low key, but pretty and dh spoke.
My second daughter ten years later we did a kiddush in shul, but we did a dessert and candy kiddush. Much cheaper. We ordered bulk candy on line. All color themed. I bought pretty containers (dollar store, Wal-Mart, Amazon), I made beautiful color themed decorations. The room looked stunning and like I had spent many more times than I had.
For this one, our daughter was over a year when we made the kiddush.

They were both beautiful simchas and didn't break the bank (though the at home one was obviously less).
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amother




Slategray


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 6:40 am
You can ask a shayla but we made a kiddush during the week. We bought some cakes for after shacris. It was cheap bc I needed all my money fir diapers etc...but im glad I didnt spend more money that I didnt have. I wish more ppl would do simpler simchas if they cant afford more but for some reason, most ppl are following the trend to spend.
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amother




Khaki


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 6:44 am
amother wrote:
We just had a beautiful baby girl ka"h after years of waiting for her. Normally, people give a kiddush for a girl, some say it has some spiritual ramifications on her life if you do not do that.
The issue is, that, here in our place, the standard for a girl kiddush is from 4500 dollar up (lately more like 8000), people bring in cakes from abroad and all that. Plus there usually are several simchas on a shabbos so your kiddush is directly competing with others. We cannot (and do not want to) afford that craze. But we do not want to skip the kiddush altogether.
Sharing it with someone is no option.
We are BT and have zero family support. The next substantially frum shul is 5 hours drive away (we are NOT in NYC), so going away for it is no option, either.
What would you do?



I'm trying to understand. You obviously are part of a very small community as the next from shul is 5 hours a way. So how are there "several simchas" on shabbos? Also, oot are known for small and simple people. Everyone is paying up to $8000 for a shabbos kiddush? Something is off here bigtime.
Mazal tov!
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salt









  


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 7:01 am
Does your husband daven in this shul on a weekday as well? If so, he could make a le-chayim after shacharis, maybe on a Monday or Thursday, after shul.
Some rogelech, soft drinks and schnapps.

I don't live in a community anything like this - our kiddushim for our sons' bar mitzvas cost us about 400 shekels - just bought some cakes from a bakery. If I'd have been bothered to home bake it would have cost even less.

But they way I see it, you have 3 options:

1. make a Kiddush much much below this standard, either at shul or at home (risk being spoken about/ looked down upon)
2. fork out that amount of money (risk having even less money that you do now)
3. don't make a Kiddush (risk spiritual future wellbeing of DD)

If you're asking what I'd do, I'd go for number 1.

MAZAL TOV!!!
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amother




Amber


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 7:03 am
Nothing is "off"... why am I am accused of being a troll?

We are NOT in America. We live in an European community that has 15 shuls in town, all more or less equally fancy (at least of it comes to kiddushes, there is a real "kiddush culture" here .. kiddushes are announced and basically the whole frum chevre goes from one to the next, so limiting it to one shul will still get you 250-300 people attending and "fressing").

But, as most European places are, it is very centralized. Hence no other frum place within 5 hours.

It is a "heimish" community with several rich families who set the tone for pretty much everything. The rabbonim do not want or cannot limit it. And the pressure is on everybody, you are considered a "nebbach" if you cant. Everybody tries to keep up. Recently we had a 15.000 dollar engagement lechaim in town from a family who clearly broke their bank with it.

Hope that sets the picture clear.

amother wrote:
I'm trying to understand. You obviously are part of a very small community as the next from shul is 5 hours a way. So how are there "several simchas" on shabbos? Also, oot are known for small and simple people. Everyone is paying up to $8000 for a shabbos kiddush? Something is off here bigtime.
Mazal tov!
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fmt4









  


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 7:07 am
amother wrote:
I'm trying to understand. You obviously are part of a very small community as the next from shul is 5 hours a way. So how are there "several simchas" on shabbos? Also, oot are known for small and simple people. Everyone is paying up to $8000 for a shabbos kiddush? Something is off here bigtime.
Mazal tov!


Lol, talk about NY- centric. What a generalization! You basically just encompassed the entire Jewish WORLD besides for NY. Do you think the whole world besides for NY is made up of “small and simple people?”
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amother




Amber


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 7:08 am
For all lovelies who suggested we make it at home, good idea, but we live in a tiny 1 bedroom apartment that is full with baby balagan stuff now. Sad And we are BT, homemade wont work, most of the FFB wont probably eat our food, so we would have to bring in a caterer and the whole shebang would start again.

I am really having sleepless nights. I fondly miss my days in Israel in a torahdik community where lechaims and kiddushes were done in peoples livingrooms with a bottle of shnaps and a few dry cakes....
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amother




Amber


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 7:09 am
fmt4 wrote:
Lol, talk about NY- centric. What a generalization! You basically just encompassed the entire Jewish WORLD besides for NY. Do you think the whole world besides for NY is made up of “small and simple people?”


THAT!
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monseymom25









  


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 7:10 am
It sounds like your community makes expensive simchos. If this is the price of a kiddush I can't imagine what it must cost to make a bris, bar mitzvah, or wedding. Are you prepared for this lifestyle? Have you considered moving to a place with less extravagance?
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amother




Khaki


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 7:11 am
amother wrote:
Nothing is "off"... why am I am accused of being a troll?

We are NOT in America. We live in an European community that has 15 shuls in town, all more or less equally fancy (at least of it comes to kiddushes, there is a real "kiddush culture" here .. kiddushes are announced and basically the whole frum chevre goes from one to the next, so limiting it to one shul will still get you 250-300 people attending and "fressing").

But, as most European places are, it is very centralized. Hence no other frum place within 5 hours.

It is a "heimish" community with several rich families who set the tone for pretty much everything. The rabbonim do not want or cannot limit it. And the pressure is on everybody, you are considered a "nebbach" if you cant. Everybody tries to keep up. Recently we had a 15.000 dollar engagement lechaim in town from a family who clearly broke their bank with it.

Hope that sets the picture clear.




Ok, I'm thinking you were in oot in America in places like Detroit, Indiana, Cincinnati or Florida, and I just couldn't fathom the need to spend 4500+ on a kiddush after a baby is born. Since you live in another country that I know nothing about, I can understand that this type of kiddush is part of the culture and you feel pressure. My apologies!
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amother




Amber


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 7:14 am
monseymom25 wrote:
It sounds like your community makes expensive simchos. If this is the price of a kiddush I can't imagine what it must cost to make a bris, bar mitzvah, or wedding. Are you prepared for this lifestyle? Have you considered moving to a place with less extravagance?


Yes, a bar mitzva here is around the price of a decent Lakewood wedding. You get the picture. Because of the ashirim in the community, everybody else thinks they have to do the same.

There are not many options here, moving communities would mean moving countries. My husband has a job here, it is not so simple to move abroad.
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amother




Amber


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 7:16 am
amother wrote:
Ok, I'm thinking you were in oot in America in places like Detroit, Indiana, Cincinnati or Florida, and I just couldn't fathom the need to spend 4500+ on a kiddush after a baby is born. Since you live in another country that I know nothing about, I can understand that this type of kiddush is part of the culture and you feel pressure. My apologies!


I wish I was in Cincy Smile I was there as a young girl, amazing place. But now if it comes to the US, forget about immigration if you hold an European passport...and have no family connection to the US whatsoever.
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amother




Green


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 7:17 am
You don’t need a caterer. You need herring, kichel, and cake. Maybe a store can deliver that or dh can pick it up. Also, what was your plan for a bris or Shalom zachor? Can you afford some of the costs, or you can’t pay for anything ?
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salt









  


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 7:17 am
amother wrote:
For all lovelies who suggested we make it at home, good idea, but we live in a tiny 1 bedroom apartment that is full with baby balagan stuff now. Sad And we are BT, homemade wont work, most of the FFB wont probably eat our food, so we would have to bring in a caterer and the whole shebang would start again.

I am really having sleepless nights. I fondly miss my days in Israel in a torahdik community where lechaims and kiddushes were done in peoples livingrooms with a bottle of shnaps and a few dry cakes....


I know this isn't so helpful, but had you had a boy, you'd have had to make a brit. That, I assume, would also have to have been up to a certain standard.
So did you think about this beforehand?
The advantage of a girl over a boy is that you have more time to think about it. But maybe in your case that's worse, because instead of losing sleep over it for 8 days, it can drag on... Smile

ok, sorry, that comment isn't going to help you.

Do you have a rav you can ask questions to? This isn't really a halachic question, because it's not halacha that you have to make a Kiddush after a daughter is born. Just some rabbinical authority that you can consult with.
You should probably bench hagomel, not even sure if you have to halachically have a minyan of men - you can probably say it alone if you have to.
The idea of making a Kiddush is to give thanks to Hashem.
Perhaps you could give money to tzedaka in the zechut of your daughter.
That's why I say ask a rav, if you're not sure if that 'counts'.
good luck.
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amother




Amber


Post  Wed, Jun 20 2018, 7:20 am
I think the system here is faulty.
The ashirim set the tone and everybody else is pretending to also have money. Noone would settle for something smaller. They bring in cakes from abroad, because the local infrastructure is not fancy enough...
The rabbonim do not stop it or do not want to stop it so as not to upset the ashirim.
The BT and poorer FFB families want to be just like anyone else. I have a BT friend who was admired for her "cleverness" because she managed to pull a kiddush off that only cost 2000 dollars, because she took local food...

I am so exhausted...
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