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Are disposable pans a "Jewish" thing?
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soap suds




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 27 2018, 8:54 pm
Raisin wrote:
Yes definitely. Almost impossible to find here except at xmas time. (for turkeys, and not cheap) Or from catering supply shops. Or I can order online from a frum shop in another country.

I use them only for cooking for yom tov or for the freezer. (I've had unhappy results trying to freeze pyrex pans. Sad ) I guard my supply and get pretty annoyed when they get used for silly things. I don't get why people use them for things like challah. At one pan per challah that adds up pretty quickly!! I line my pans with parchment paper and no washing up is needed. Metal pans stack pretty easily.

I prefer not to use to much disposables for enviromental reasons as well as the fact that I pay a ton of money for rubbish removal.


I use disposable pans for challah. I don't throw them out after a single use, though. I replace them twice a year or so.

Before I use them for the first time, I rinse them, stick them in the oven for 15 minutes on a low temp while still wet. I don't know exactly how it works, but it prevents the challah from sticking to the pan and it slides out easily with very little mess.
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OutATowner




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 27 2018, 10:27 pm
soap suds wrote:
I use disposable pans for challah. I don't throw them out after a single use, though. I replace them twice a year or so.

Before I use them for the first time, I rinse them, stick them in the oven for 15 minutes on a low temp while still wet. I don't know exactly how it works, but it prevents the challah from sticking to the pan and it slides out easily with very little mess.


I don't want to pasken, but ask you LOR about toiveling the pans if you reuse them.
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dee's mommy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 27 2018, 10:39 pm
If it is a "Jewish Thing" I don't think that is good. I find the amount of disposables used in the frum community very distressing.

I was never really big on disposables, but for the last few years, I have been more environmentally conscious, and have been more strict about not using them at all. My two exceptions to this is if I am cooking a meal for someone else (to send to them), and the two or three days of the "in between" stage of turning the kitchen over for Pesach. (Even then, I have been lessening that, and wash cutlery in the laundry room, and using paper plates to compost.)

I use real plates, cutlery and baking pans all year round, weekday, Shabbos and Chaggim (And I don't have a dishwasher either.) (For washing pots and pans, I find baking soda, and a washable scrub pad to work wonders.)

Ladies, if I may be blunt, our ancestors had big families, no dishwashers, and no disposables. Their dishes and pots and pans were made to last, not to throw away. If they could do it, so can we. Let us not sacrifice our children's future and and embrace our reusable cooking gear.
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Wed, Jun 27 2018, 10:43 pm
dee's mommy wrote:
Ladies, if I may be blunt, our ancestors had big families, no dishwashers, and no disposables. Their dishes and pots and pans were made to last, not to throw away. If they could do it, so can we. Let us not sacrifice our children's future and and embrace our reusable cooking gear.
they also did not work out of the house. (And in many countries/ time periods, full time domestic help was quite common)
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amother
Ginger


 

Post Wed, Jun 27 2018, 10:50 pm
amother wrote:
they also did not work out of the house. Enough said.


not really "enough said". some respect that our choices to make our lives easier don't come without some cost.
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Frumwithallergies




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 27 2018, 10:51 pm
"Ladies, if I may be blunt, our ancestors had big families, no dishwashers, and no disposables. Their dishes and pots and pans were made to last, not to throw away. If they could do it, so can we. Let us not sacrifice our children's future and and embrace our reusable cooking gear."

Well said, Dee's mommy!!!! I also only use for sending out meals and sparingly for pre-pessach.

And yes, if foil pans are reused, the must be toivelled... please ask your LOR.
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Wed, Jun 27 2018, 10:54 pm
amother wrote:
not really "enough said". some respect that our choices to make our lives easier don't come without some cost.
I never said or implied that our choices don’t come at a cost. I said / implied that she’s being judgemental of people who aren’t living like “the old days” in regards to domestic abilities. Well, the comparison is unfair and not apples- apples.
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dee's mommy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 27 2018, 10:55 pm
amother wrote:
they also did not work out of the house. (And in many countries/ time periods, full time domestic help was quite common)


Some did work out of the house. Some worked in their own or family businesses, or sweatshops or had other employment. Some took in work in their homes for profits. Otherwise, they did housework in between dishwashing which was difficult and labour intensive.

Today, many of us have replaced servants with technology, such as dishwashers, microwave ovens, washing machines refrigerators and freezers. Many families today have some sort of cleaning help.

I know washing dishes isn't fun and can take a long time, but really, everything we throw out has a consequence. Throwing "away" does not mean it disappears from existence.


Last edited by dee's mommy on Wed, Jun 27 2018, 11:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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enneamom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 27 2018, 11:03 pm
Frumwithallergies wrote:

And yes, if foil pans are reused, the must be toivelled... please ask your LOR.

Not so simple. They're manufactured by non-jews as disposables, not permanent keilim. If you decide to use them, then you, the Jew, have just upgraded their status and created a permanent kli. (If you plan on throwing them out after the second use, they're still disposable and probably don't need tevilah unless you always toivel disposables.) Since this makes them a kli created by a Jew, they don't need tevilah according to some opinions.

Basically, ask your LOR.
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 27 2018, 11:04 pm
OutATowner wrote:
I don't want to pasken, but ask you LOR about toiveling the pans if you reuse them.


My Rav says you don't have to. But of course, ask your own LOR.

Oh, sorry, enneamom, just saw your post. Yes, I was told that since they were manufactured to be only a one time use, that is how they are considered in halacha, even if I personally reuse them.
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dee's mommy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 27 2018, 11:13 pm
amother wrote:
I never said or implied that our choices don’t come at a cost. I said / implied that she’s being judgemental of people who aren’t living like “the old days” in regards to domestic abilities. Well, the comparison is unfair and not apples- apples.


Yes, I am judgmental. I don't think that regular use of disposables is a good thing, especially when talking about a larger community.

Why is it old fashioned to use real dishes? How is it unfair to compare to previous generations? Our work may be different nowadays, but not necessarily harder. (I think it was harder back then.) If you have a dishwasher, then that can lighten the work for the meals you can use it. If you have to wash by hand, it's not fun, but it is certainly doable. (If you have to wash a lot, I assume there is more than one person in your family. It doesn't have to be you washing them. The task can be assigned to different family members.)

I'm not saying that disposables should never be used. There are situations that call for it. What I mean to convey is that as a community, we should be aiming to lesson the use of disposables. Every bit helps.
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amother
Ginger


 

Post Wed, Jun 27 2018, 11:20 pm
amother wrote:
I never said or implied that our choices don’t come at a cost. I said / implied that she’s being judgemental of people who aren’t living like “the old days” in regards to domestic abilities. Well, the comparison is unfair and not apples- apples.


"enough said" implies that there is no further room for discussion here given the circumstances presented. Its actually kind of rude in a forum where people discuss things.(I noticed you removed it)
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amother
Emerald


 

Post Wed, Jun 27 2018, 11:21 pm
gamanit wrote:
I think another reason it's more popular by yidden is because if you have a small kitchen with milchig sink and fleishige sink there's no room for a dishwasher. A non-jew only needs one sink and one dishwasher. I do agree though that one major reason is because it's more common for most of the food to be home made. The non jewish families in my neighborhood that have working mothers have take out very frequently.


The kosher reasons make sense. But plenty of non Jewish moms cook homemade food every night. I’m in some Facebook mom groups and I’ve seen that many cook just like we do. Though frum working moms need takeout or frozen food sometimes too.
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amother
Black


 

Post Wed, Jun 27 2018, 11:28 pm
gamanit wrote:
I think another reason it's more popular by yidden is because if you have a small kitchen with milchig sink and fleishige sink there's no room for a dishwasher. A non-jew only needs one sink and one dishwasher. I do agree though that one major reason is because it's more common for most of the food to be home made. The non jewish families in my neighborhood that have working mothers have take out very frequently.


Many religious Jews have two sinks for convenience, but that's not required. Sephardim often use only one dishwasher. And from what I've seen in Brooklyn and other neighborhoods, there are a lot of religious families eating takeout food.
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etky




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 12:48 am
Are paper baking pans not a 'thing' in the US?
They might not be appropriate for all types of oven cooking but for cake baking and for kugels they are great.
Here they come in all sizes and shapes and are as widely available as the foil type.
There are even different degrees of sturdiness (with matching prices) so you can match the pan to the task at hand.
By stocking both types of pans in your kitchen you can cut down significantly on the metal waste that you generate.
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amother
Blue


 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 12:53 am
Incidentally, we recycle many of our foil pans.
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 1:13 am
Food doesn’t cook nearly as well in disposables. I do use them for certain times but I do find that real heavy duty pans makes for much better food.
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amother
Bisque


 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 1:20 am
dee's mom, you are so right.

I really, really want to start cooking with the "real" stuff, and I do when the supper is a stovetop supper. It's the oven that uses the fakies.

And the dinner table. And breakfast. (And lunch, if I have time to eat that day.)

I really feel bad about the amount of plastics and aluminum I use. I really, really hope to stop soon, but as a person with a medical issue that makes the use of my hands painful, and limited cleaning help, and four kids under 9 -- it's hard. It's really really hard.

I suspect that many other mothers here feel the same.

Hashem should help that we should all be capable of using the healthy, lower-footprint pots and pans.
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amother
Bisque


 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 1:24 am
enneamom wrote:
Not so simple. They're manufactured by non-jews as disposables, not permanent keilim. If you decide to use them, then you, the Jew, have just upgraded their status and created a permanent kli. (If you plan on throwing them out after the second use, they're still disposable and probably don't need tevilah unless you always toivel disposables.) Since this makes them a kli created by a Jew, they don't need tevilah according to some opinions.

Basically, ask your LOR.


That is an absolutely fascinating train of thought. (I think some readers, if not most, will miss out on the interesting twist there.)

As interesting as that is, my personal dayan poskens that all aluminum and plastic disposables need to be toiveled if you plan to keep them beyond one use. He also says this in regard to oven racks, if one is placing food (like challah when reheating) directly onto the racks. At that point it no longer becomes a part of the oven, but a vessel to hold the challah.
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amother
cornflower


 

Post Thu, Jun 28 2018, 1:45 am
OutATowner wrote:
I don't want to pasken, but ask you LOR about toiveling the pans if you reuse them.


Many of the disposable pans being sold in NY (and some oot cities too) have a hechsher and it says on them אינו צריך טבילה. Its either a jewish company or somewhat made by jews.
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